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Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock – Episode 17: The Repeatee Birds
[Fraggle Talk theme music plays]
JOE HENNES: Hello and welcome to Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock, the unofficial Fraggle Rock podcast brought to you by ToughPigs.com. This is the podcast where we cover Fraggle Rock: Back Back to the Rock episode by episode along with the talented producers, performers, writers, and builders who helped put it all together.
I’m your host, Silly Creature Joe Hennes.
[Music ends]
JOE: Today we are talking about season two, episode four “The Repeatee Birds,” in which strawberries and radishes go to war thanks to some extremely unsettling birds.
This week we have three very fraggley guests on the podcast. First up, he is a puppet builder who’s worked with the Muppets, Sesame Street and the Jim Henson Creature Shop. And on Back to the Rock, he’s the on-set wrangling supervisor and costume stylist. It’s Alex Jurgen Ferguson. Hello, Jurgen.
ALEX JURGEN FERGUSON: Hello there. Thank you for having me on. Appreciate it.
JOE: Of course, great to have you here. Our next guest is a puppeteer and puppet builder with countless credits on Muppet and Henson Productions. On Back to the Rock, he’s a costume designer and the Creature Shop supervisor. It’s Scott Johnson. Hello, Scott.
SCOTT JOHNSON: Hello. Thanks for having me. Good to see you again.
JOE: Likewise. And thirdly, he’s a puppeteer who’s been wiggling dolls on various projects with Sesame Street and the Jim Henson Company since 2007. On Back to the Rock, he performs Wrench Doozer, the body of Pa Gorg, the puppetry for Jamdolin, and a giant talking radish. It’s Andy Hayward. Hey, Andy.
ANDY HAYWARD: Hey, Joe. Thanks for having me. It’s always great to talk to you.
JOE: Likewise. So good to have you guys here. I’m really excited to jump into this episode with you. Before we do, I want to ask you guys a couple of quick questions. Scott and Jurgen, did you guys have a different approach to this season for building or refurbishing new characters from season one? Or was it just like same old, like you just kind of see something in the script and just get it up there? Or were you like doing stuff beforehand in preparation before the season started?
SCOTT: Well, we started, you know, we work for the Jim Henson Creature Shop. I work in Los Angeles and Jurgen works there too, most of the time. And so we definitely start early. And of course, having done the first season, I think we stepped into the season with just a little more confidence to just have a little more fun and just try to do a little more.
I think first season we were definitely, you know, like just trying to find it. You know, trying to find what makes it a new show versus staying true to the original show. And so I think there was a little bit more just like kind of diving in and really, really going for it as much as we can. And then, too, because we had our Calgary crew all set up and they were also familiar for it. Like first season, we were getting to know, everyone was getting to know each other. So, it’s like when we get back up into Calgary, we’ve got all these puppeteers and all the super talented crew up there. And knowing all of them, it’s just easier and quicker to just dive right in.
JOE: Yeah, totally.
JURGEN: Yeah, it really felt the second time like it was like we just picked up right where we left off. So it was very comfortable. And they actually gave us a little more time up there, the second season. We had more time to prep and get things ready to go. So that helped as well.
JOE: Did you have a sense of like season one, like we’re reintroducing Fraggle Rock to people, people are going to get upset if it’s too dissimilar from the original Fraggle Rock? So like maybe season one was playing it a little bit safer. Did you feel like season two you got to kind of spread your wings in a different way?
JURGEN: Hmm. Is that for one of us or just anyone could join in? [laughs]
JOE: I mean, that was for the two of you. I mean, specifically about things like character design, costumes, props, like everything that you guys are touching. Feels like usually there’s a very specific style to the characters and to the world of Fraggle Rock. But now we’re in season two, you can start to kind of bend the rules a little bit.
SCOTT: Yeah, I think there definitely was, again, that ease of jumping in and just kind of going for it. And a lot of that too is determined by, you know, the scripts. The scripts have kind of a broader range this season where we’re touching on a lot of different topics. The first season really, you know, there was a lot of the water issues and this sort of thing.
So in this season, it’s all tied together with some of the wind and that sort of thing. But we were able to kind of go to different places and a lot of that’s because of John Tartaglia and Matt [Fussfeld] and the other writers and also our director in the season. For this episode, Jordan Canning, who again, brings such, such amazing ideas all the way around that it just makes it a lot of fun.
So I think, you know, I don’t know if that answers the question, but it certainly was a lot of fun. [laughs]
JOE: That’s good. That’s all that matters. As long as everyone’s having fun.
Andy, what about you? Did anything change for you between season one and season two?
ANDY: Um, you know what? They did some amazing things between the two seasons to make it a little easier for the puppeteers. The first season, the second tier of the cave was practical. So you’d go up there and there was an actual floor you could walk on. Meaning when you’re puppeteering, you had to lay on your back and do puppets over your head.
And this season, they took all that out. So then you could just stand behind that cave wall and puppeteer. So I think from a puppeteer standpoint, they were able to troubleshoot a lot of things and make it a lot easier, I think, for all of us to do our jobs.
SCOTT: You know, actually, Andy brought up a good thing. They also added a whole new quarter section of the cave, where like before the cave was like, you had like a corner and one side and then another corner. This season they went on and extended of one of the corners onto a full other side of the cave and then curved it around some more.
So we had more access to areas, more different places to film where you could change it up. So that gave us a little more freedom to move around and get a lot of different new settings.
JOE: That’s cool. Cause especially, I mean, I definitely noticed in this season there’s a lot of, I mean, both seasons really, but in this season, especially, there’s a lot of really great moments where there, it just looks like there’s 700 Fraggles on screen and they’re all over the place.
This episode as well has some really great scenes with just a lot of Fraggles. And so to have those options to like stick them in this corner or put them up there without, you know, making it too hard on the puppeteers or the post-production people. That’s great. I’m glad that they did that for you.
ANDY: Yeah, and we got some new background Fraggles for season two as well, if I recall. Yeah.
SCOTT: Oh yeah.
ANDY: Yeah.
SCOTT: They were great.
JOE: I noticed. And I have a couple that I’ve pointed out, that I’m going to point out later on in this episode. I’ve been asking everybody on this podcast about them because it seems like from everyone’s social media that they’re, that you guys have given them names and maybe even personalities. And as a super fan, I need all this information. I need to know, like, who is that purple Fraggle? And you’re like, oh, that’s, you know, Jill. And you’re like, “Ah, Jill’s my new favorite character.”
ANDY: I’m pretty sure, Jurgen, were you not the one you named almost, if not all, of the background Fraggles?
JURGEN: I can’t take credit for all of them, but for many of them, yes. Yeah, I do. I just look at one and go, “I’m sorry, that one looks like a Randolph or you never know.” So. Yeah, I did name a few, but I always tried to get anyone else involved in. Please, here go, name them.
SCOTT: Yeah.
JURGEN: So it was a group effort. The puppeteers, I mean, we would come up with some of the backstory, but then the puppeteers would, if we told them, “Oh, that’s such and such.”
Like one of our favorites is Peach Pit, which is one of the baby Fraggles. And Peach Pit’s very cute and adorable and everyone fights over who gets to play that character. But in real life, Peach Pit is actually a mafia don and is one of the most vile and cruel and evil characters in the Fraggle world. And so the puppeteers ran with this.
So while she’s on camera, she’s singing and cute and then once the camera cuts, she would just turn around and point at me and be like, (in gruff voice) “You’re next, Jurgen.”
[Joe laughs]
JURGEN: (in normal voice) So they made this character sinister behind the scenes.
JOE: That’s incredible. And now that you said that on a podcast, that’s going on the Muppet Wiki. That’s canon.
JURGEN: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Peach Pit and I have a long, long history together.
JOE: Wow. Well, I hope well, now that you’ve also said this publicly, God forbid anything happens to you, we know who the lead culprit is. Peach Pit.
JURGEN : Absolutely.
JOE: Incredible. Let’s talk about this episode that has all these amazing Fraggles and background characters with names or no names. This episode opens with an inkspot relaxing in a pot with a towel on its head and little cucumber slices on its eyes, which is fantastic. If that was the beginning and end of this episode, I’d still be like five stars. It was great. I loved it.
ANDY: That was a proud performance of me. I got to do that.
JOE: That was you?
ANDY: Yeah. Yeah. I got to keep resetting cucumbers, putting new top stick on there. Yeah. It was great.
JOE: And so I assume you guys had to like… build fake cucumbers?
SCOTT: Yep. Yep. I think it was I think it was Jordan, the director’s, idea, initially, and she requested that, you know, that one of the inkspots be in the hot tub. So then I, so yes, we built fake cucumbers and then the little towel. And our costume department does the towel up and then yeah. [laughs]
JOE: Amazing. So this seems like the kind of thing…So if it came from Jordan Canning that means, I assume, you guys were on the floor. You were filming and she goes, “I have an idea.” And so when she does something like that, how much time do you think it would take to say, “Okay, let me go back to the workshop and I’ll come back to you too. Is it like I’ll be back in an hour? I’ll be back tomorrow?
SCOTT: Do you know what, sometimes it’s very quick. This one–
ANDY: Twenty minutes.
SCOTT: We had a couple days’ notice on this one, but there have been times and particularly, Jordan is so creative that there’s been times where she’ll say, “Can I have those inkspots, dressed as boy scouts. And Jurgen will come running into the shop and say “It’s the next shot.” And, you know, more often than not what that means is it’s Jurgen grabbing some fabric and scissors and some tape and glue and trying to make these things. And again, in the shop then sometimes we’ll all jump in and just try to make that shot happen.
But in this specific case, we had a couple days to work that out. But it can and has been very fast.
JOE: I love the visual of like Jurgen running into the workshop and saying, “It’s an inkspot emergency!”
JURGEN: It really is. It’s like that old TV show, the M*A*S*H show, where like literally everyone drops everything and just runs over. How can I help? And God bless our Calgary crew. They really, really just pull out all the stops to help, always.
JOE: Wow. You make a great Radar.
ANDY: This is a season one Jurgen thing, but we had an inkspot that I don’t know. I think it was, someone came up with it on the spot, that was being pulled out of a hat like a magic trick. And Jurgen, I think you cut up one of your own hats for that.
JURGEN: Oh yeah. Yeah.
ANDY: I recall. Yeah, yeah.
JURGEN: Yeah, I had like a bowler. Or no, it was a top hat. And I got it to turn it into, was it Wembley, I believe? Wembley doing a trick?
ANDY: Wembley, yeah.
JURGEN: And yeah, so it’s like, yeah, go ahead. You can always find another hat.
JOE: And you just happened to have a top hat. [laughs]
JURGEN: I usually wear different hats every day on set. It’s easy to spot me.
JOE: Oh, that’s very Gobo of you. Yeah.
JURGEN: Well, you know, we’re all wearing masks back then. So if you have a hat on, it’s easy to, yeah, just look for the pirate guy. That’s Jurgen.
JOE: Great. That’s a great idea. Look for the guy with a hole in his hat. That’s Jurgen.
JURGEN: Yeah.
JOE: So Boober is acting as head chef for a whole bunch of fraggles that are in his kitchen. He does that little clap that chefs do to get everyone’s attention. And he’s wearing oven mitts. So he doesn’t doesn’t quite work the first time. He is putting together a culinary experience. It’s the Radish Razzle. It’s the only dinner and a show where the dinner is the show.
Let’s talk a little bit about Boober’s outfit here. He’s got–well, you explain it to me. Like what do you see in the script? And then what do you decide to do in the workshop?
SCOTT: I think when we were figuring out what that was, it’s dinner and a show. And so I was thinking like Boober’s a, you know, this is like a TV chef. So that’s why he has a chef’s hat that he sometimes wears. But it’s a little bit floppier of a hat. But I thought like, well, this is, he’s putting on a show. So it’s like he’s got a kind of a crisper hat and a very crisp white chef’s coat. And then it’s the Radish Razzle. So of course the chef’s coat has radish buttons all the way down it. And I think there was a logo on the hat too that had, you know, I was kind of thinking that would kind of help bring it to kind of it’s a show.
So it’s like that’s why there’s like a little star behind the radish that’s on the hat. So to kind of brand it, like this is his big show and kind of to elevate the expectations of what that presentation would be.
JOE: So in the script, none of that was there. That was just you making decisions on what you think Boober would be doing in this moment?
SCOTT: Yeah, well, myself and then Jordan the director.
JOE: Yeah, of course.
SCOTT: And of course in our production meetings, we all talk through the show. So it was, I think Jordan that was bringing to it things like the, when he eventually gets to his performance, she’ll kind of map out what some of those things are. And some of it’s in the script, but some of it’s also just like, oh, he’s going to be doing this kind of Benihana kind of a show with slicing the radishes and the radish volcano.
And so it is kind of there in the script. But yeah, as far as what that kind of is. Yeah. So I was always just thinking of the presentation of it. And then too, that’s why the inkspots show up and they’ve got kind of the background dancer outfits, that were, I think, in that kind of checkered tablecloth motif that then I think Wembley shares on his mitts and then also Boober has a handkerchief around his neck, I think, of that same checkered pattern.
JOE: Yeah, I noticed that. That was a nice touch just to tie everything together. Good theming on Boober’s part.
SCOTT: Yeah, and then I believe too, and I’d have to look again, but I think that Tyler [Bishop Harron] our production designer, then he was also kind of running with that and so I think there were tablecloths and all kinds of things for that set that all tied together really nicely in the end.
JOE: So you basically bought Calgary out of all their red and white checkered fabric.
SCOTT: Yep, yep, absolutely. [laughs]
JOE: Great. Boober goes into the cupboard to get more radishes for this Radish Razzle but in the cupboard there’s Bongo. He’s eaten them all. Bongo, of course is known to a lot of fans as Begoony from the original Fraggle Rock. This is not the first time Bongo has been inside of a cupboard eating radishes. It is a running gag, folks, two years in the making.
Boober holds up a radish stem and immediately it’s swooped up and stolen by this mysterious bird that we don’t really get a good look at here. We’ll talk about that in a minute because I have a lot of questions about what that bird was.
JURGEN: Oh, lordy. [laughs]
[Joe laughs]
JURGEN: Oh those birds.
JOE: Questions. Not complaints. Questions.
JURGEN: No, no, no, no.
JOE: [laughs] And Mokey volunteers to go to the Gorg’s Garden to get more radishes because that’s her job.
At this point, we’re going to check in with Doc and Sprocket. We’ll just go through the whole Doc and Sprocket bit here just to get it all out of the way in this podcast. Doc is bringing back Doc Bot, her robot doppelganger from season one.
So let’s talk a little bit about the design of this thing because Doc Bot…Well, did either of you work on Doc Bot’s design for season one?
SCOTT: Not really. Not really. Doc Bot was taken care of by our prop department and the production design department. So they really ran with that. So we didn’t really have too much to do with Doc Bot. And I don’t recall. Was there…who was doing the onset performance for that, Jurgen?
JURGEN: I’m trying to remember. Alll I remember was, I know because Doc Bot is also introduced in the first season. And I know we had one of our onset PAs, Jared [Ewanchook], do the reading. And he was so bad/funny at it. It just, he had us all cracking up and it wasn’t the final voice and it’s a shame because he was so good/bad at it. It was hilarious.
But I’m trying to remember who performed it for the second season. I’m drawing a blank and I apologize to whoever is out there.
JOE: Andy is probably the one who would know and Andy’s giving me a look like I don’t know. Was it you? Was it you? Take credit for it, Andy.
ANDY: It was all me.
JOE: I knew it. [laughs]
ANDY: Just kidding. No, whoever it was did a wonderful job though. It was great.
JOE: Andy, did you work on these Doc and Sprocket segments in any way?
ANDY: You know what? Just a little bit, because Johnny plays Sprocket. So if there are scenes where Gobo happens to participate, I often will double for Johnny. So for season one, they shot all of the Doc and Sprocket stuff before most of us even got there. So it was because of COVID. It was a very small crew.
This time around they did it throughout the different shooting blocks. So I got to be there a little bit. Crazy set. It looks so cool in person. And then to be underneath it and get to see what Johnny’s doing with Sprocket is just pretty incredible.
JOE: Oh my god, I’m sure.
ANDY: Yeah, yeah.
JOE: So later in this episode, there is a moment where Doc and…oh excuse me. Where Sprocket and Gobo are both on screen at the same time. So are you playing Gobo in that scene?
ANDY: It’s possible.
JOE: [laughs] I’m sure there’s no way to know which one’s which.
ANDY: Yeah, I did. At some point, I know I did.
JOE: Right. Let’s just assume it was you. Take credit, Andy.
ANDY: Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
JOE: So Doc wants to reprogram Doc Bot in her classroom to essentially act as her hype man and to make her look cool in front of the students. So she’s like recording things for Doc Bot to say and it’s having trouble reprogramming. And then she starts to just kind of get down on herself and say things like, “Why are you so bad at this? You can’t do anything right.”
Of course, the machine records it, repeats it back to her and she learns a whole lesson about spreading positive words to make the world better. I just summed up a whole episode in like five seconds, but that’s what happens.
ANDY: Very impressive.
JOE: It seems like nobody really remembers working on this segment, but do you guys have any reflections on anything on Doc and Sprocket whether it’s in this episode or something else?
JURGEN: The only thing I have to say is because yeah, because on days with Doc and Sprocket, it’s usually just Sprocket. So it would be Johnny and a lot of times Jordan [Lockhart] would step in to help do the back end.
Every shot was different. Sometimes it’d be the half-body or then we’d do the three quarters body, which is basically a full-body Sprocket without legs. And then we’d do full-body Sprocket, which is all of his legs. And it usually means that Johnny has been buried under a piece of carpet or inside a sofa.
And so there’s always a lot of rigging and a lot of cramped spaces for the puppeteer. So a quick shout out to anybody who’s had to endure me sitting there trying to fluff Sprocket to make him look good and they’re sitting there with their hand up stuck through a couch. They’re really taking a lot of abuse just waiting for us to get ready to shoot. So those guys, they put a lot into this.
JOE: Do you think John Tartaglia goes home and like just to relax and to feel like he’s comfortable, gets underneath the sofa cushions?
JURGEN: Lord, I hope not.
[All laugh]
JURGEN: No, because the couch that’s used in Doc’s set is actually has been almost completely gutted. So, in fact, you know, the poor onset people, they’re just like, “Please, nobody sit on this couch. If you do, you’re going to fall through the couch and then fall through a hole in the floor.” So the couch is way off limits. And so yeah, if Johnny went home and tried to do that with the real couch. I think he’s going to smother to death because it’s still full of box frames and sofa framing. But yeah, yeah, the Doc’s couch is absolutely just a shell.
JOE: Just a shell. Wow.
JURGEN: Just a shell.
JOE: That sounds sad, but it’s important. In the gorg’s garden, first thing, we see Pa Gorg. That’s you, Andy. You’re Pa Gorg.
ANDY: Hey! Yeah.
JOE: You finally got out from the castle in this season. You have legs.
ANDY: You know what? During season one, yeah, we were wishing just to get out of, because we were always up on that tower or, you know, window. We’re like, “Man, it’d be fun to get on that lawn.” And then once we did, Ingrid [Hansen] and I both like, I don’t think we fully comprehended what Ben was going through on that terrain. [laughs]
Because it is, I think the original series, it was all built out on one flat floor. But what we have with the gorg’s garden, it’s got hills and slopes and there are little rocks. There are two steps going up to the front doors. You have to like clock that, you know, and try not to fall. So it was a fun challenge. But, yeah, definitely broke a sweat.
JOE: I believe you. Yes.
ANDY: Yeah. [laughs]
JOE: Pa is such an interesting character in this season because, like you said, he’s kind of stuck in the castle in season one and it’s like, he only has so much to do. But here, we kind of have to start with him liking the fraggles and then disliking the fraggles. And he goes through this weird journey where he’s just so dumb and so full of himself.
ANDY: Yeah.
JOE: Did you, I mean, I hate to say you were just the body, which is not true, you put so much into that performance. But because you’re not providing a voice for the character, do you feel like you have an opportunity to add a lot to his journey through this season?
ANDY: Yeah, you know, and just being free from the castle window, we could do a lot more physicality. And I think season two, Pa got to do a backflip off of a chair at one point at the end of the season. I felt straight up like all kinds of fun hijinks.
And it’s always fun working that stuff out with Frank [Meschkuleit] because he’s an idea man. He always has, you know, an A, B and a C and this would be great. What about that?
The other challenge this season, too, is that the creature shop kind of rebuilt Pa and Ma. So now they have more… you probably can both talk to this better than I can, but more expression. The eyes move left to right now. I think the mouth has a little bit more as well.
Yeah, so playing with eye focus even and when to pivot and when Frank’s going to move those eyes was a whole new challenge too.
SCOTT: We just did that to make that heavier for you.
ANDY: Yes.
[All laugh]
SCOTT: We thought, you know what would make it heavier is more motors.
ANDY: Yeah! And louder too. It’s much louder.
SCOTT: Wait until next season, we’re putting in eyebrows.
JOE: Your poor neck. Oh.
SCOTT: Yeah. Yeah.
ANDY: Yeah. When we first got those costumes for season one, there were weights tied to the back of the head that I later had talked to Gord Robertson, who was in the suit originally and he said, “Oh, yeah, we put those there to counterbalance some of the weight.” And they managed to stay there for, I don’t know how many decades it’s been, but yeah.
SCOTT: Yeah. And do you know what, when we were refurbing those heads, those weights were still on there and what the weights were were bags of Canadian pennies.
ANDY: No way!
SCOTT: So we have at the creature shop here some bags of Canadian pennies from 1980. I don’t even think you have pennies up there anymore. [laughs]
ANDY: I do not think so. I don’t think that existed. Wow.
JOE: Did you know that Pa Gorg was so valuable? There’s money in those gorgs.
ANDY: There’s something else to put on eBay: Pa’s pennies.
JURGEN: Pa’s pennies.
[All laugh]
JOE: So Pa wants Junior to get rid of all those pesky strawberries in the garden. Junior spots Mokey. She’s there. The tiny little Mokey next to her–Next to him. Excuse me. And she’s got her radishes, but she tells him, like the fraggles love the strawberries.
And he’s like, “Oh great. You take them.” And I love that like he just drops some strawberries on her and they’re huge. That’s such a good… I love all the moments in the season of like the gorg is holding something and its small. Gives it to a fraggle and it’s big or vice versa. There’s so many of those and I absolutely love it.
I know that’s prop stuff, but like, I’m sure you guys appreciate it too.
SCOTT: It was amazing, specifically this season because the strawberries are so prevalent. There were every scale of strawberries. So they made, you know, the props department was making little strawberries and bigger strawberries and then huge strawberries.
And there was, it just seemed like they were doing it all season long for almost every episode. It was like, “Oh, there’s more strawberries.” But yeah, there are lots of strawberries.
JOE: Strawberry emergency, just like an inkspot emergency. We need more strawberries. Somebody get on that.
SCOTT: Yup.
JURGEN: Another thing that made it, it was a lot more work, but in the end, I think it paid off was in the first season we would film gorgs’ point of view and then we would go back later and shoot the blue screen and put in the fraggles.
This season, more than ever, we actually had a blue screen, what we call the blue cube, and it was this tent that would come down from the ceiling and they would actually record the fraggles doing their bit while they were filming the gorgs, which was right next to the blue cube. And then they would have the, actually the video would go in and put the fraggles onto the screen so we could actually see where everybody was, real time in their actual size.
And so we got to go ahead and just film the whole scene and didn’t have to wait another day to finish it off.
JOE: That’s so convenient.
JURGEN: And again, it was the timing of trying to lower those strawberries down from gorgs’ point of view to then Mokey’s point of view. So a lot of clever camera angles and editing going on during those scenes.
JOE: Is there like a math problem? A problem… I don’t know what I’m talking about. But like a math equation where you’re like, okay, so Junior’s holding this thing and it’s six inches big. And so when we give it to the fraggles, we have to divide it by X and move the denominator to make sure we know how big it is.
SCOTT: They did have a scale.
JURGEN: Yeah.
SCOTT: And in fact, we have a poster on our wall in the workshop that I think Tyler, the production designer had made. But it was a big poster that showed every character at their scale to each other. And then strawberries next to that.
JOE: Oh!
JURGEN: Mmhmm.
SCOTT: So they were, you know, it was the production designer again because he and props had to generate all these scales of strawberries because then there were even bigger ones that they had made to interact with the Doozers.
So it’s just like we had a, it’s a cool poster. People love this poster because it was. It was like all the fraggles and then like strawberries kind of ghosted over them at different scales so that you could kind of, and again, he mathematically had figured that all out.
JOE: I’m sure Fraggle fans would love that. I’m sure strawberry fans would love that. Math fans would love that. [laughs]
SCOTT: Exactly.
JURGEN: Yep.
JOE: At the Radish Razzle, Red is ready. She says, “When Boober does that soup toss, I want to be in the splash zone.” And she’s wearing this poncho with a double hood to cover her pigtails, which is actually incredible. Congratulations. That is a phenomenal and yet very simple costume piece that got a big laugh out of me.
SCOTT: Yeah, very funny. I think actually that might have been Karen Prell’s idea. I can’t remember exactly, but I think it was Karen Prell that… And again, she’s a genius all the way around.
JOE: Yes, she is.
SCOTT: Like a genius performer, but also an amazing artist. And I think it might have been her that was like, “What if there was a hood for each pom pom on her head.”
JOE: Brilliant.
SCOTT: But yeah. Pretty great.
JOE: Gobo obviously loved it too because he says, “I wish I had a poncho.” And Red says, “Well, I got bad news for you, bud. You don’t have to wish anymore because I got you one.” And they start chanting, “Poncho, poncho, poncho.” And I want one too. If you guys are making more. I’ll take one.
[Scott laughs]
SCOTT: Yeah, I’ll take down the order.
JOE: [laughs] I’ll pay you in Canadian pennies.
ANDY: [laughs] Pa pennies.
JOE: Pa pennies. Boober starts the Razzle and this is the scene where he’s doing some fancy tricks. Tossing knives. He throws a radish in the air, slicing it over the grill. It’s amazing, by the way, that in the past year or so, there have been two different Muppet productions with a character doing this, you know, hibachi-style cooking.
JURGEN: Mmhmm. Yeah.
JOE: Because Animal does it too, in Muppets Mayhem. We also learned in our Muppets Mayhem: Backstage Pass podcast, which is on this channel, that there’s a difference between hibachi cooking and teppenyaki cooking. And apparently what we think is hibachi is actually teppenyaki.
I don’t remember what the difference is, but if anyone wants to Google it, feel free. You can learn a little something. You can listen to a different podcast about that because we don’t need to really get into that subject again, but it is kind of interesting to someone.
Boober makes a radish volcano and it’s great because you could see like the seams of where he sliced it and then there’s steam that comes right out the top. It’s a great effect. Oh, and then, there’s the two inkspots that you mentioned before in the plaid dresses and they’ve got bows on their heads and they’re dancing for Boober. It’s adorable. It’s a great moment.
Andy, did you work on any of part of this, from the puppetry side?
ANDY: Yeah, yeah. This episode was a little bit interesting for me because I think that we often do like there are some performers of many characters. So oftentimes, you know, I’ll double for them based on what they need.
But COVID was still very real and there were still illnesses. So I actually had to jump into Boober for a lot of this episode. So yeah, the knife bit, that was me and I had Ingrid Hansen helping me out. Yeah, yeah, just thrown right in there. [laughs]
JOE: So it’s just you and Ingrid. So does that mean that, are you handling one of the arms and she’s doing the other or is she doing both for this? Because It’s a lot of choreography.
ANDY: Yeah. If I recall, she was doing both arms for me while I was busy over-acting with the face. [laughs] Making Boober look a little too pleased with himself there.
JOE: He should be pleased with himself. You should be pleased with yourself.
ANDY: Oh yeah.
JOE: It looks great. I love that.
ANDY: Oh, right on.
JOE: I would gladly eat at Boober’s teppenyaki restaurant.
ANDY: Me too. At least you know it would be clean. Right? You wouldn’t have to worry about contamination or anything like that.
JOE: True. Although the chef is not wearing shoes or pants. So I’m concerned about that part.
ANDY: Or pants.
JOE: But other than that, yes.
ANDY: Yeah, yeah, fair. Fair.
JOE: Nobody is paying attention to Boober because they are distracted by all these delicious strawberries that are in Fraggle Rock now. And he says, “Strawberry, more like rude berry. What do we even know about them? They might be a disaster.” And the camera pans up and we see that strange bird again, above him. Listening.
Alright, let’s talk about this strange bird. We will later learn that this is a repeatee bird. And it kind of looks like a cute, odd-looking furby. So who designed, first of all, who designed these things?
SCOTT: The original designs for those came through Pete Brooke at our Los Angeles creature shop. And he had done a whole series of different birds. And, of course, the director and Johnny and all the other producers all kind of go through those designs and pick out parts they like.
So on that design, some of the cool parts of the design has got the little ears that are kind of like little owl, kind of almost little owl tufted ears. But again, those ears were great because they had a little pull string mechanism on them so that they could lift an ear when they would hear things and things like that.
And then I believe at some point, the New York shop built the repeatee birds. And I think we had expressly kind of asked for a certain kind of wing mechanism. So there were actually little motors in the wings to get those to flap. And I think we had asked for those so that they could…because we had used a similar thing or a similar mechanism for the num num birds from the holiday special we had done previously.
But it made for very easy shooting to have kind of a little on/off switch on the wings so that we could fly around a lot. Because most of the time they’re in the air.
JOE: I’m sure the puppeteers were happy about that because the flapping that they do, it’s very quick, obviously because it’s motorized. But I’m sure if it was a string and to know every time they’re on screen you’ve gotta go, “Okay, here we go.” Flapflapflapflapflapflapflapflapflap. Okay got it.
SCOTT: Yep.
JOE: Yeah. One less thing to worry about. I get that.
SCOTT: Yep, yep.
JURGEN: On the other hand…[laughs]
JOE: Yes. Tell me.
JURGEN: Those things, I was going to say, there was one motor per wing and they were on either side of the puppeteer’s arm. So the only thing, whenever they would have to go into, I would be there going, “Please don’t tear the machine. Please don’t tear it.”
So they had to be very careful sliding their hand up and out of the puppet sleeve because those two little motors were nestled right on either side. And I’m not sure where the New York shop got those little motors. They were tiny little things but they were powerhouses. But you did not want to nudge or break them or move them or breathe on them wrong.
JOE: Did they break down a lot too? I mean I assume that’s something that you guys have to deal with daily of just something breaking down.
JURGEN: No, it wasn’t breaking down. It was because they were so tiny that just nudging them the wrong way and suddenly the wing would be flapping the wrong way upside down. So you had to really be careful to keep the motors the right way up. So that was also be like, “Please be careful when you put your arm in there.”
But everyone, you know, they all worked out. They looked great and so no harms, no fouls.
JOE: They’re such unique designs, these puppets. And I can’t put my finger on just this idea that they kind of look fraggley but they don’t really look fraggley by which I mean from the world of Fraggle Rock. Obviously they look nothing like Fraggles. And I think it’s maybe the eyes are just very small and very far apart. Was that deliberate?
SCOTT: I remember a lot of…They were funny.
[All laugh]
SCOTT: I always remember everyone kept looking at them and going like, “Are the eyes that far apart?” But then you kind of laugh because they’re very funny. [laughs]
JOE: Yeah. Yeah.
SCOTT: So yeah it was certainly deliberate in the design. I don’t know if there was any reason beyond it other than it is a funny look.
JOE: That’s reason enough, as long as they’re funny. As long as I’m entertained. That’s all I care about.
SCOTT: Yeah.
JOE: And I am.
SCOTT: Make someone laugh.
JOE: Right. Done. Check.
We check in with the Doozers. Once again we’ll go through the whole Doozer plot here. But the Architect thinks that these strawberries could make for great building material but Cotterpin thinks it’s a bad idea. And so we meet Measure Doozer, who is a Doozer with like a measuring tape belt and holding a big piece of measuring tape, suggesting that we send it to Research and Development.
That is the name of two frag–excuse me, two Doozers, Research and Development. They’re two Doozers in lab coats with these tiny little photo IDs on their lapels, which is adorable. Before I go on, any comments about any of these three costumes for these Doozers?
SCOTT: No, they were fun. I think that Measure was interesting because Measure, I think her trim on her vest, she had a similar vest to everyone’s but her trim, I think, was also like little tape measures.
JOE: Right. Yes.
SCOTT: I kind of recall the toughest bit of that was that to do a measuring tape and try not to feature numbers because in Doozer/Fraggle-land like it turns into kind of a thing of how they… do they use human numbers? So it’s like I think on the little vest we didn’t have numbers. I think the little tape measure on her back may have ended up having a couple little numbers on there. But yeah it’s always kind of the question of what keeps it in the world. And doesn’t let the human world sneak in too much.
And I think we were riding a dangerous line on this one because it was a very human-looking tape measure and a very, you know, so it’s like that sort of thing. What’s Doozer technology versus human technology and how far are we allowed to kind of let those things bleed into each other?
JOE: I would have never thought about the numbers thing. I’m glad that you guys are thinking about that because that’s this lore stuff that, I mean, someone would have pointed it out and we would have said, “Oh the whole thing’s broken now. We saw the number three on a Doozer.”
But I mean as for the technology, I mean I feel like the Doozers especially it’s like you know Cotterpin has a cotter pin. And the Doozers have little wrenches and hammers. And so I feel like there’s a lot, there’s so much crossover. Like we wouldn’t have thought twice about the fact that Measure has a thing of measuring tape. But yes, the numbers, that is fascinating.
SCOTT: Yeah, it’s just one of the little things we think about and then whether or not we stay absolute to that or if it makes someone laugh then it’s like, “Oh, get it in there.”
JOE: Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah that and again that’s all that matters. You’re making me laugh. I’m happy.
They are testing the strawberries. We get a shot of Wrench and Turbo Doozers. They’re wearing splash suits and they’re getting splattered with strawberry guts. Andy, you are Wrench. As you know.
ANDY: Yeah. Yeah. I think we had one…I think we had to get that in one, as far as I remember.
SCOTT: Yeah, there wasn’t a way to clean that mess up.
ANDY: Yeah.
SCOTT: Were you the one that took the…Did Wrench take the big splat?
ANDY: Oh gosh, I don’t remember but it was it was hilarious.
JOE: It was, yeah. It also, yeah, that explains too, why like the first one is like a little bit of strawberry and the second one is a ton of strawberry. You only had one take. What was actually throwing the… whatever the goo is. Like is it, is someone throwing with their hand? Is there like a spoon that they’re flinging? Do you recall?
ANDY: I do not remember. I want to say I was under the stage so I wasn’t even really seeing.
SCOTT: Yeah, you know what? It was our special effects crew had put together an air cannon. And so they actually had an air cannon that they could kind of dial back and get the aim just right.
So yeah they had and I think that’s what it was. In fact, I think the first one might have been kind of a manual pump where they just kind of spat out a little bit and then the second one actually had an air tank and a hose and really, really shot it out fast.
JOE: That feels excessive, right? Like you built a strawberry gun for Fraggle Rock.
ANDY: Oh, you should have seen the strawberry cannon they had for later on in the Gorg’s garden. That thing had power but we’re jumping to a different episode. [laughs]
JOE: No, no. Please tell me more about that. We can jump around. I don’t mind.
ANDY: No, the special effects team came up because we had those strawberries that were being pelted at Pa and Junior. And they came up with, they would load them into a cannon and they would fire at us.
JOE: Amazing.
ANDY: Yeah. I think they had a little too much fun with that but it looked amazing. It was great. And once we wrapped that episode, they let Ben and I go in and shoot strawberries at them just for a little bit.
JOE: Oh, good.
JURGEN: Awww.
JOE: Is it actually strawberry? Like is that the substance that they use?
ANDY: Oh for the doozers. I would guess not.
JOE: Either one. The doozers or the gorgs. Is it strawberry goo or is it just like I don’t know, glue painted red?
SCOTT: I kind of feel like there was actual kind of jam because I remember there being kind of a discussion as to… because when they had written that, I don’t think there were full hazmat suits. I think it was just kind of written that the splat would happen. And then of course you start kind of working that out like well how are we going to…can we have a take two? Can we…Are we going to ruin a Doozer to do this? How do we protect the puppet?
And I think that’s when I think I had kind of recommended well, why don’t we put them in the hazmat suits and seal those suits up top to bottom so that there’s no way any red is going to get to them. And then I think at that point then the idea of what the actual goo was kind of becomes irrelevant. It doesn’t need to…Initially the talk was like, “Oh, we need something that’s not going to stain. Not going to not be sticky. Not be this.” But I don’t remember exactly what they came to in the end and then maybe some kind of an artificial thing but it might also be strawberry jelly. I’m not positive.
JOE: I mean, if you want something that looks like strawberry then that’s the easiest way to go. Yeah.
SCOTT: Yeah. Yeah.
JOE: Well, just to wrap up that plot line, they do all the research. Measure announces that the results. The strawberries are fine. They’re not great building materials but they’re delicious and their tops make for great little festive hats.
But I do want to go back a quick second to Wrench and Turbo because I think they’re hysterical. Can we please get a full episode just about them in season three? Can we plant that seed?
ANDY: Hey, I’m all for it. I think that’d be great.
JOE: I bet you do. No, I think it’d be fun. Like there’s such this little like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of Fraggle Rock. They’re always there.
ANDY: They’re always there and in my mind and I think Ali Eisner, they’re always just having their own little drama in the corner, right? They’re always present but they’re going through their own stuff.
JOE: Yeah.
ANDY: They’re just two idiots. They’re two idiots.
JOE: They are. Yeah. So Boober overhears two Fraggles saying that thing that he just said a few minutes ago about the rude berries and the strawberries might be a disaster. And he follows that weird looking bird and he finds out they’ve been repeating what he said. So he has an idea. He says strawberries are bad for Fraggles. And they repeat it.
The bird flies out, says strawberries are bad for Fraggles. And then some fraggle says… he repeats it as well and says, “A bird said that and I believe birds,” which I thought was a great line and a good line reading from whoever that was.
And word spreads quickly and the fraggles start to gravitate back toward Boober’s Radish Razzle. Gobo, who’s just come back from getting Traveling Matt’s latest package, says that he saw Doc eating a strawberry and says, “Oh, silly creatures he strawberries too.”
And a couple of the Fraggles get excited about that. Oh, if it’s good enough for a silly creature, it’s good enough for me. I don’t really get that logic but it seems like they’re more afraid of silly creatures but sure. Okay. We’ll run with it for the sake of the episode.
So this is where I started to notice some of these background Fraggles and how unique they look. Like really different from, definitely different from the original series, but different even from season one. The one that stood out to me most is there’s a fraggle with a mohawk. Jurgen, did you give this one a name?
JURGEN: Titane!
JOE: What is it?
JURGEN: Yeah. Titane!
JOE: Titane.
JURGEN: French. It’s French. Titane.
JOE: Is it named after the body horror film, Titane?
JURGEN: Absolutely.
JOE: Oh my god!
[All laugh]
[crosstalk]
JURGEN: Yeah, I just again, when we saw the new ones it’s like, “Oh boy, fresh new names.” I took one look and said, “Oh, that one right there.” So yeah.
JOE: Wow. Amazing. I wish I could talk about the movie Titane on this podcast but I feel like it’s a little…a little off topic. Yeah if you’re, I don’t know, over 18 maybe you could Google it.
But yeah, there’s so many interesting looking Fraggles back there. I wish I could… I mean I should have paused it and been like, okay what’s that one and what’s that one and what’s that one? Do you have any other favorites or any others that you’re like so excited when they grab it off of the shelf and they put it in the background of the scene?
JURGEN: Well they’re always going to grab…the puppeteers there are a select few who are always going to go for the three babies which I believe are Cantaloupe, Peach Pit and Honeydew. Those are the three Fraggle babies. So they’re always going to be the first ones to go. So we sometimes literally have to put like big swatches of blue tape or ribbon around and say no. Because the first AD or Jordan or whatever director’s on set at the time will say, “I don’t want babies in this scene. No babies.”
So we have to like literally slap the puppeteer’s hand. Back off. Away from the babies.
[Joe laughs]
JURGEN: But no, those are always favorites. And of course with brand new…what is it Scott? We got like 10 new ones, I believe.
SCOTT: Mmhmm.
JURGEN: But then of course, all the puppeteers were like, “Ooh, I’ve gotta try the new ones now.” But everyone definitely has their one or two favorites that they always go to. And we try to accommodate where we can.
SCOTT: The new background that came this season, very pointedly they’re a little bit larger in general. Like they were… there’s more body shapes and more shapes in general. Some of them have kind of bigger jaws. But they are kind of bigger puppets and a lot of that is so that in the big group scenes, you know, it kind of fills the frame a little more so that you can have kind of one of the larger Fraggles deep in the background and still be able to see it. So there are a lot more again just kind of larger and different body shapes, different…some of them with broader shoulders or broader hips.
JOE: That’s good. It makes them feel less generic in that way because I feel like, especially when there’s a whole Fraggle gaggle and so many of them are just like, yeah that’s the orange one and the gray one and the blue one, they all look identical to each other. Like I mean, deliberately. They’re supposed to fade into the background in a way but I think I prefer to have like this variety of like there’s all these Fraggles. They all have their own lives. And any one of them could have a line and they have a specific voice and a character behind them. I love that idea. It’s world building.
SCOTT: Yep.
JOE: Andy, do you have a favorite Fraggle gaggle to grab?
ANDY: I was going to say…They have like beaky. They have the kind of pointed and I don’t know but there’s a gold one that I love. Yeah, I like anything that’s super broken in, too. So I always go for the oldest things I can find, because they’ve got the smushiest mouths and, you know, the foam’s nice and broken in.
JOE: Oh, that’s nice.
ANDY: Yeah.
JOE: And then do you also feel like, because I assume those are refurbished puppets from the old show. Like do you feel that connection to the old puppeteers?
ANDY: Yeah. Absolutely. I think for me, I’ve noticed a lot of the cave creatures seem to be original. So I always will nerd out a little bit. I’ll flip the sub sleeve over and take a look at the label. Be like, oh my god, 1982. And here this thing is.
JOE: That’s so cool
ANDY: Yeah.
JOE: I love that.
ANDY: It’s pretty neat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JOE: So Boober panics. He finds a repeatee bird and says, “Strawberries are from outer space. How can we even trust them?” So that the bird will repeat it all over Fraggle Rock.
We get a great shot here, where the camera kind of follows this repeatee bird as it’s flying around the great hall. We get like what kind of looks like a 360 degree look of the whole great hall and all the Fraggles around who are all hearing this message from the bird.
Gobo thinks the radishes– excuse me, that the strawberries are delicious so he says it out loud and so the bird repeats that. So now we’ve got mixed messages all over Fraggle Rock. And the Fraggles have split into two camps. There’s pro-strawberry and there’s anti-strawberry and they come equipped with costumes.
ANDY: Of course.
JOE: Radish hats. Radish costumes. Pogey’s wearing like a radish bib. There’s strawberry hats and antennae. So is this one of those things where you guys see this in the script and you’re like, “Oh we’re going to have fun with this?”
SCOTT: Oh yeah, of course. And that’s the sort of thing where the whole shop kind of jumps in. And what’s so great is it’s such a collaborative show. Like I think it was just on the show. Like one of the customers came up and they’re like, “Can I make a whole baby onesie that’s a whole strawberry just to put one of the babies in?”
And it’s like, “Well of course. That’d be great.” And then it works out and somebody else will be like, “Well, I’m going to make the radish one that goes with that baby one.” And then some people kind of gravitate towards the hats and some of them want to be like, “Oh I’ll make radish bracelets for everyone.” And then realistically for a few days it’s a radish-strawberry factory in our workshop and everyone’s just making hats and costumes and pinnings and different things for all the Fraggles to wear.
And then I think the prop department does the same. Like props jumps on. They’ve got all the banners and different signage and stuff that they all have. So yeah, those kind of crowd scenes are the most fun.
JOE: What an awful job you have. Like it must be so hard to have to go to work in the morning and make strawberry and radish costumes and hats. Ugh, sounds awful.
SCOTT: Yeah. Yeah. Somebody’s got to do it. Somebody’s got to do it.
JOE: Someone does have to do it. Thank you for doing it. It feels very special.
Red comes in. She’s got like flags and stuff and she is very pro-strawberry. She loves them because they’re red like her. Even though radishes are also red. But strawberries are redder. It’s all very arbitrary but I just like when Red gets excited about things. Adorable.
This is where we get our first song of the episode. The song is “Radishes Versus Strawberries.” It’s a big back and forth with all the Fraggles. There’s like this dramatic lighting on them. Feels very like stage-music-y. I don’t know why it reminded me a lot of Les Mis. You know, when they’re doing their big battle scene.
It’s cool too, because the repeatee birds are flying above. They’re circling like vultures. Visually, it’s great. It looks awesome. Andy, where were you in this scene?
ANDY: This was interesting for me. So we do a prerecord ahead of time for the songs. So I sang and had learned the strawberry side. No, the radish side. Then we had a little choreography rehearsal and I was a background at that time. So I flipped it and had to learn the part I didn’t record. And then I ended up having to dip into Boober and going back and reversing my mind. So I was Boober in that.
And I love that you brought up Les Mis, because when we started filming, Johnny came over to me. He’s like, “Okay, this is defiant.” And I’m like, “Defiant, like how?” He’s like, he paused and he said, “Les Mis.” And I’m like, “Gotcha.” One Broadway nerd to another.
JOE: Amazing. [laughs] Say no more.
ANDY: So you said Les Mis and I’m like, “Yep, it came through.”
SCOTT: And that theme like all the way through like even the set design, Tyler was, you know, in the production meetings bringing that up where he was like one of the what if they overturn the tables that were the tables for the Radish Razzle and they turn those over so those become like walls. And so it was definitely staged to be Les Mis.
JOE: Amazing.
SCOTT: You know, it was definitely. And yeah and then the lighting. The lighting was great. It was great.
JOE: I do like that when you guys do stuff like that, with the lighting especially, where it feels like, okay, pause. Like we’re doing a thing now. We’re doing a musical number. We’re kind of taking us even out of the reality of Fraggle Rock for a minute to do this special thing.
And it’s just like what a great opportunity to have fun with what’s going on the screen.
JURGEN: I would like to point out, because after I found out we were going to be discussing this episode I was going back through all of my photos and all my reference stuff from on set and I found videos where I got the whole cast singing, where they’re going back and forth. Radishes. Strawberries. And there’s Johnny in front of everybody and he’s literally with his hand motions doing the, you know, urging on the choreography.
And then Jordan walks up and then she’s sitting here and she’s jumping up and down in time to the music. So you’ve got Johnny, the choreographer, the director bouncing along then you have these two massive groups of puppeteers with look little puppets on their arms and they’re just lurching back and forth at each other.
And I wish that the audience could see this behind the scene, this insanity that’s going on because it’s quite beautiful to see that not only are the puppets dancing but the puppeteers below, they’re getting into it as well.
JOE: Yeah.
JURGEN: It’s quite fun and lovely to see all of this action going on that no one else will see except the puppets.
JOE: Amazing.
JURGEN: It’s a lot of fun watching the people as well as the puppets on set.
JOE: Yeah, yeah, and like that energy definitely comes across with, you know, through the puppets on the screen.
Another interesting thing about this song is, so apparently the Fraggle Rock TikTok uploaded two versions of the song. One is Gobo singing his half and the other one is Boober singing his half. And the half that they’re not singing is karaoke style. So I guess the idea is you would duet the video and sing the other half of the song with Gobo or with Boober, which is brilliant. That’s a great idea whoever came up with that.
JURGEN: That’s fun.
JOE: Yeah, so this is all chaotic. Boober has to escape. He climbs into a hidey-hole and immediately afterward, Red climbs in. Squeezes next to him. And then Mokey and then Gobo and then Wembley. Well, actually Wembley was there before everyone. He’s just been quiet. And they’re all crammed in together and it’s like that famous state room scene from A Night at the Opera, where it’s just like a tiny little space and way too many characters.
And it’s a great visual just having the characters just smooshed up against each other. Andy, are you playing Boober in this moment here?
ANDY: You know what? I did that scene as Boober and then later on they reshot it because the original set that we had used, it looked too spacious.
JOE: Sure.
ANDY: Yeah, so I had shot all those scenes and then they decided they needed to fix it, so they made a new set or they re-arranged the rocks a bit. That’s Frank.
JOE: Okay. So it was almost you.
ANDY: Almost, yeah. You know what? In spirit.
JOE: Take credit for it, Andy. It’s all you.
SCOTT: There’s a cut out there. There’s one cut of it that exists.
ANDY: Yeah. Somewhere. I don’t know.
JOE: Release the Andy cut.
ANDY: Yeah! Why not?
JOE: But I always wonder about these things when it’s at least five puppeteers, in this case, where I can’t picture where you all are because two solid objects cannot occupy the same space. [laughs] So you guys must just be on top of each other for these things.
ANDY: You know, you just get cozy. You have to get cozy. It’s just inevitable.
JOE: Yeah, deodorant is your friend.
ANDY: That is your friend. That’s right. [laughs]
JOE: Boober admits that all this chaos has been his fault. He was worried that the radishes might be forgotten and that maybe he’d be forgotten. And that’s something that is actually I think the most profound thing in this episode. This idea that I’m championing this idea because it’s actually because I have this fear about myself that I might be forgotten. And I feel like we’ve all felt that way at one point in our lives.
So it’s interesting to hear Boober kind of say this through this ridiculous analogy of radishes and strawberries. He also admits he’s never even tried a strawberry. Like come on, Boober. Just try it.
ANDY: Yeah, come on.
[Joe and Andy laugh]
JOE: The Fraggle five go back to the great hall and now they’re starting to give the repeatee birds some positive comments to spread around to the rest of the Fraggles.
“Fraggle love is back.
Pass it on.
Our difference in taste cannot mean hate.
Pass it on.
Healing works.
Pass it on.”
And what’s next? It’s a song. “Pass It On.” What a great song. What a great great song.
It’s from the original Fraggle Rock series episode, “The Perfect Blue Rollie.” But it was also played on Fraggle Rock: the Animated Series, in the Jim Henson’s Musical World live show at Carnegie Hall a few years back. It was heard in the Fraggle Rock: Rock On mini series. And I think most famously, everyone knows it from Muppet Family Christmas.
Andy, for this song, for you being a big Muppet fan, this song and probably the classic songs that we hear in almost every episode in the series, it’s gotta be such a joy for you to get an opportunity to perform in them. Is that accurate?
ANDY: It is crazy. Anytime when a legacy comes up, and I see it in the script and then I get the demo, it brings me back to the first time I heard that song. And for a lot of them, and this is going to go way back, but, I grew up in a small town in Minnesota and we had like one teeny little mall with one record store. But I remember going and buying my Fraggle Rock CD from there.
And so like, oh my god, I remember laying on my stomach on the floor and listening to this CD. And here I am with a Fraggle on my hand. What? What is life? So yeah, it is very special.
JOE: Oh, I love that. I love that. And this song, again, not only is this a great song, you guys perform it really well. It’s really fun. And all the different Fraggles get a bit to sing. Wembley’s jumping in with the “Uh uhs.” I don’t know what… there’s probably a name for those grunts. Maybe they just call them grunts. I don’t know.
ANDY: I guess. Yeah.
JOE: And like everyone from Fraggle Rock is there. It’s just like, again, this gaggle of Fraggles. Everyone’s there singing along. The visual that stood out to me on this one is there’s a big sign with a radish on a stick. And same thing, a strawberry on a stick. And then they kind of cross each other and they make a glowing heart. That was really pretty.
Is that the kind of thing that shows up in a script or is does that come out in the production meetings? Like, here’s an idea. Let’s try this.
SCOTT: I think that came out of the production meetings. And I think that was somewhere between Tyler Herron and Jordan, I think had that kind of idea. But yeah, it certainly comes out. But yeah, I don’t think it was necessarily a scripted moment.
JOE: Well, it’s beautiful. I think it came out really well. A nice way to kind of put a little bow on that storyline. But the story’s not really over because there’s a repeatee bird still repeating, “Strawberries are bad for Fraggles.” I guess he missed this entire episode. Didn’t get all the other comments to repeat.
It flies into the gorg’s garden. And we see Pa Gorg. He’s like admiring his crown in a mirror. It’s such a weird moment. He’s like doing this like, “You talking to me” moment.
ANDY: Yeah. Oh, and if you notice there, I mean, he has a little throw away at the top of the episode. But he’s like, “I’m going to go inside and try on my crowns.” So like, there is some setup for that.
JOE: Oh, good.
ANDY: Yeah. But I guess he decided it’d be fun.
JOE: A little continuity. Yeah.
ANDY: Yeah, the fun thing with that is that our wonderful prop department came over with this spare crown for me to juggle and to drop on the ground. And I’m like, “Are you sure this is safe?” They’re like, “Oh, positive. It’s going to be fine.”
“Okay. Cause I’m going to drop it. We’re going to rehearse. I’m going to drop it. “No worries. Go for it.” Dropped it. Cracked right in half.
JOE: [laughs] Oh no.
ANDY: So after that episode, they put the broken crown, I don’t know if you can ever see it, but when the doors open into the castle, there’s a shelf. And they put my broken crown there for me to see every time I go into it. So, yeah.
JOE: Now is that done for you? So you feel bad every time you see it? [laughs]
ANDY: You know what? I think it’s a tribute to my artistry, is what it is.
JOE: Absolutely.
ANDY: I’m so good at breaking things. You know?
JOE: You know what? It’s modern art.
ANDY: It’s modern art. Sure.
JOE: It’s gorg history.
ANDY: That’s right. Yeah, gorg lore.
JOE: And it’s worth probably dozens of Pa pennies.
ANDY: I’m sure. At least.
JOE: Pa hears the repeatee bird saying strawberries are bad for Fraggles. And he’s like, “Oh, they’re bad for Fraggles?” And he tells Junior, “Change of plans. Now we want more strawberries.” And Junior’s like, I just picked all these strawberries out, you jerk. And then they have a big fight…
No, they don’t do that. But that’s where we close with the gorgs. We check in with the Fraggles one more time. Boober is finally trying his first strawberry. And they say, Well, Boober, how do you like it? And he goes, “It’s…it’s…It’s…It’s fine. It’s just fine.”
I don’t think I had a bigger laugh in this entire series than I did after that line reading of Boober’s. That was absolutely hysterical. It’s just like so much buildup and then it’s nothing. And then the credits roll and we’re done.
[All laugh]
JOE: And that’s it. Oh, and I have one more question about this episode as a whole and then I want to kind of throw it back to you guys.
But I noticed that we started this episode Boober’s wearing his chef’s hat as we discussed. Later on, we didn’t really talk about it with the Traveling Matt stuff, but he’s wearing like a pointed party hat at one point. And in this scene, he’s not wearing a hat at all.
Do you think this is the first episode of any Fraggle Rock series where Boober never wears his trademark hat?
ANDY: Oh.
SCOTT: Wow, that’s an interesting observation.
JURGEN: Oh, wow.
JOE: Wow. Yeah. Now the lore is broken open.
SCOTT: You might be right. Yeah. I didn’t think because he starts in the chef’s hat. Yeah.
JURGEN: He takes his chef’s hat off halfway through. And then, wow. Wow.
JOE: Yeah. No hat.
JURGEN: Wow.
JOE: It really strikes me that he was hatless for so much of this episode.
SCOTT: Right, right.
JOE: I kind of assumed that by this scene, you know, where there has been a little bit of a gap since we saw him last, that, you know, he probably put his old hat back on. But no, still hatless.
SCOTT: Hmm.
JOE: Alright. What does it mean? That’s for you to figure out.
JURGEN: Hold on. Okay. Real quick. I’m going to go because I’ve got a complete breakdown of costumes. I’m going to go look and see what it says. I just want to see if there’s anything that says. You keep going, but I’m just, I’m going to look this up.
JOE: Oh, we really are breaking this one wide open. Fascinating. All right. While Jurgen’s doing that.
JURGEN: Yeah. Go ahead.
JOE: While Jurgen’s doing that, do you guys have any other reflections on this episode, any other memories of filming it or if not, anything from any other episode that really stands out to you since you might not necessarily be here for the other episodes of this podcast?
SCOTT: Yeah. No, no, I mean, just just in general, like these are, for me, these are my favorite kind of episodes, where you can kind of feel the musical structure of it. And it really does play out like a musical.
And then too, because, you know, the way kind of the message works in it and stuff is, it is, it’s deep on so many levels. But then you can still just break out and sing songs and have fun with it. So, of this season, this one’s one of my favorite episodes. It really is. And I find myself a lot, you know, around the shop, people hate us because we were often singing, “strawberries, radishes, strawberries, radishes.” [laughs]
[Joe laughs]
SCOTT: Because it’s fun to sing too.
JOE: It’s an earworm, for sure. All the songs on this season have really been, they’re so strong. Either great choices from the original series or these Harvey Mason Jr. songs that are just, honestly I think they’re catchier than the season one songs, most of the season one songs that they wrote.
Yeah, they really, they did a phenomenal job with the music this year.
JURGEN: It was definitely one of my favorite songs of the whole show–of the whole season was the strawberry radishes.
And by the way, I did, I looked up. I just found it. I’m going through my continuity and it’s amazing, but it says over halfway through the episode and to the end, it has NO HAT in giant capital letters just to make sure I didn’t screw up and go and put it on. No hat in any scenes.
So yep, someone made a point in telling me, no hats.
JOE: Well, there you have it. Amazing. Alright, well, someone listening to this is going to tell me how wrong I am. They’re going to say, “Um, actually there’s this other episode where Boober doesn’t wear a hat.” And I’m going to go, “Oh, I totally forgot about that. I feel dumb.” But hey, still, pretty neat.
JURGEN: Yeah.
JOE: So. For each of you guys, I have one more question I’d love to ask you. Based on this episode, based on your whole experience working on Back to the Rock or anything else that’s happening in your lives, how do you plan to make the world a little fragglier?
SCOTT: What do you think, Andy?
ANDY: I’m going to shake my baloobius, is what I’m going to do. I think that would help, right?
JOE: It couldn’t hurt.
ANDY: Sure. That’s fraggley.
JOE: Shake it. Shake it like a Polaroid picture.
[Andy laughs]
SCOTT: I think, you know, I always try to just make sure everyone can find the humor, can find the humor in anything. And as long as everyone can kind of find a place to laugh, it’s like that’s what I always kind of hope that I’m bringing to some of this is that, that even if it’s just dumb or, you know, with everything else going on or differing opinions, if everyone can just kind of find where that’s funny, it’s like, I think that’s a good place to point yourself.
JOE: I love that. That’s great. And you’re definitely bringing a lot of humor to the show through everything each of you guys are doing. So you’re a big success in that regard.
SCOTT: Well, and it’s, again, it’s my favorite show I’ve ever worked on. And a lot of that is because every single person working on it and every– on the crew and all the puppeteers are all just, you know, they’re just so much fun to hang around with. And they are all hilarious. And they all bring the talents they have. And it turns out everyone’s just got tons of talents. So it’s, you know, it really is just kind of an abundance of joy.
JURGEN: I guess for me, I know, first season I went into the show and I think it was a little, I was so serious because, you know, we’re having to, you know, we’re restarting or rebooting this classic Henson iconic piece of entertainment. And we have to do it in…I think I got a little too into my head about it.
Second season, just thrilled that we got to come back. And I suddenly realized, don’t take it so seriously. Like Scott said, enjoy the humor, but relax. You’re with a group of people who want to come to work, are enjoying what they do, whether it’s making costumes or, you know, or throwing strawberry splatters at little green men. Everybody is coming to work and having a great time. So just relax, enjoy it.
And I had so much more fun the second season because it’s like, we’re just one big happy family and just take it one day at a time and enjoy it.
JOE: Love that. You can relax right up until there’s an inkspot emergency and then it’s panic.
[Jurgen laughs]
SCOTT: Then we get to have way more fun.
JOE: Yeah, that’s right.
JURGEN: Absolutely.
ANDY: But truly, the wranglers and everybody in the shop are the unsung heroes of the show. They are the first people there in the morning. They’re the last ones to leave because they’re busy rigging and planning for the next day. So just acknowledging the work that they do.
It’s so integral. And they don’t often get, they very seldom get the credit they deserve. So yeah, amazing work.
JOE: Jurgen, Scott, Andy, thank you all so much for being here and seriously thank you for all the work that you’ve done to bring Back to the Rock to us. It’s such a phenomenal show and I’m so happy to get to celebrate it with you and with everyone listening to this podcast. But most of all, thank you for being here on this podcast. You didn’t have to take the time and you did and I’m very grateful for it.
SCOTT: Cool.
JURGEN: You’re very welcome. Yeah, thanks for having us.
ANDY: Thank you.
[Fraggle Talk theme music plays]
JOE: Fraggle Talk: the unofficial Fraggle Rock podcast is brought to you by ToughPigs.com. Produced, written and hosted by Joe Hennes.
Fraggle Talk art by Dave Hulteen Jr. Fraggle Rock mark and logo characters and elements are trademarks of the Jim Henson Company. All rights reserved. Transcripts provided by Katilyn Miller. Fraggle Rock theme song, written by Philip Balsam and Dennis Lee, is used with permission. Special thanks to the Jim Henson Company, Apple TV+, and the entire Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock Family.
Be sure to follow ToughPigs @ToughPigs on all social media platforms including Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok. And please consider supporting us on Patreon or by buying merchandise on Teepublic. For more Fraggle podcast fun, listen to Fraggle Talk: Classic on your favorite podcast app.
Thanks for listening and we’ll see you next time down at Fraggle Talk.
[Theme music ends]
