Transcript: Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock – “When Mokey Met Lanford”

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Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock – Episode 16: When Mokey Met Lanford

[Fraggle Talk theme music plays] 

JOE HENNES: Hello and welcome to Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock, the unofficial Fraggle Rock podcast brought to you by ToughPigs.com. This is the podcast where we cover Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock, episode by episode, along with the talented performers, producers, writers, and builders who helped put it all together. I am your host, silly creature, Joe Hennes.

Today we are talking about season two, episode three “When Mokey met Lanford” in which Mokey branches out to make a new best bud who really be-leafs in her.

[Laughter]

JOE: I’m sorry these plant puns are a bit mulch.

[Laughter]

JOE: Thank you so much for the polite laughter. This week we are so stoked to welcome two extremely special guests back to the podcast. First up, she is the performer behind The Storyteller Fraggle, Cotterpin Doozer, and the Fraggle Five’s artist-in-residence, Mokey. It’s Donna Kimball. Hi Donna.

DONNA KIMBALL: Hi, Joe. Hello, everyone.

JOE: Wonderful to have you here. Thank you for coming back.

DONNA: I’m delighted to be here. Thanks for having me.

JOE: Also joining us is the performer inside Ma Gorg as well as Lanford and the character find of 2024, Little Rago. It’s Ingrid Hansen. Hello Ingrid.

INGRID HANSEN: (in voice of Lanford) Hello. Hi, hi, hi. [laughs] (in normal voice) Hi, Joe.

JOE: Hello. Thank you both so much for joining. I’m very excited to talk about Mokey. Talk about Lanford and to talk about Mokey and Lanford with you.

DONNA: We’re delighted and just so the audience knows, Ingrid and I, all while you were talking, Ingrid and I are making faces at each other. [laughs]

JOE: I was trying so hard not to look.

INGRID: Thank you so much, Donna. [laughs]

DONNA: That’s pretty much how we spent our work days, catching each other’s eye across the set and making goofy faces at each other.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: Anything could’ve happened below the frame.

DONNA: Oh yeah.

INGRID: Oh yeah.

DONNA: I know.

JOE: Yep, whatever keeps the energy high.

[Donna and Ingrid laugh]

JOE: So, Donna, tell me. Tell me what, if anything, changed for you in your approach to Mokey between seasons one and two?

DONNA: Oh, in my approach. You know, I felt a little more free this season for sure. I felt like, I just think the writers are so great on this show and they really understand us and want to understand us as performers and how our personalities mesh with the characters’ personalities. 

So I just felt like I just hit the jackpot this season in terms of everything that Mokey had to do and even things that Storyteller got to do.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: I think she was sprinkled throughout like the potent spice she is and so I felt a little more, I think a little more secure and therefore a little more free so I could go a little farther. Push myself a little harder, those kind of things. Without resting on the laurels if you know what I mean.

JOE: Ah. Is that another plant pun? More laurels.

DONNA: Oh hey.

JOE: It is now.

DONNA: Yes.

JOE: Yes. Yeah, because you’re a fantastic improviser and I have to assume there’s so much improv with, specifically like Mokey and The Storyteller and also Cotterpin, especially when she’s standing next to The Architect. And we’ve talked to some of the writers already on this podcast talking about trying to write to the strengths of those improvisers. So did you feel like you were kind of getting lines that felt like something that you would say?

DONNA: Oh definitely. Definitely. And I think that’s just from time together and getting to know one another and I’m feeling a little more free to try things and that means improvising some new stuff and feeling. Yeah. I’m pretty confident and I’m okay with pitching an idea because I’m okay if someone doesn’t want that idea.

JOE: Sure. Yeah.

DONNA: I’m not too attached to my ideas that I pitch so I like feeling collaborative and getting some ideas out there. But if someone says, “Okay, let’s do that way once and then we’ll do it my way” and I go, “Oh, okay, you’re just doing that to be nice.” But okay, I’ll just show you my way and see what happens.

JOE: [laughs] Sure.

DONNA: But yeah, throwing out ideas and not being terribly attached. But yeah, I just, yeah, writers are just… I bow down. I bow down.

JOE: They’re very talented. They’re very good at their jobs.

DONNA: Mmhmm.

JOE: Ingrid, you were all over season one but this season is kind of your first real jump in to getting your own regularly recurring character, that you perform solo I should say, as opposed to Ma Gorg. Can you talk a bit about what that journey was like for you?

INGRID: I think I got a call from Johnny [Tartaglia] saying, “We have a character who’s a real weirdo that speaks only in gibberish and I thought of you.”

[All laugh]

INGRID: I was like, “Yeah, that’s me. Typecast. Put me in coach.” Working with Lanford and with Donna and with everybody was so much fun. It’s so fun to play a character who… I love working in gibberish and non-language based stuff.

I really milked Lanford for all he was worth. Some of the first scenes with him and the “This for That” scene, I just started, he just started imitating anything that Mokey said and the (laughing) directors and editors kept it in which was so fun. (in normal voice) None of that was scripted or directed. That was just me letting Lanford be a little joyous idiot.

JOE: I was wondering about that. I love to hear that that was your choice.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: Because Lanford, it must be so hard for any character that doesn’t speak and who also, they drive the plot by existing but not by anything they’re actually doing. The fact that you get to do this and to have so much comedy and so much to say is really driving Lanford forward and to make Lanford someone’s favorite character for sure.

INGRID: Yeah, he has a lot of opinions and he thinks he always knows what’s going on and he is kind of like, he thinks he can speak English but he doesn’t have a tongue or the same mouth structure as a fraggle. Yeah. He has a lot to say. (laughing) Usually Mokey understands him when no one else does.

DONNA: (in voice of Mokey) Oh, perfectly. Totally. (in normal voice) I have to say when I heard that you were playing Lanford, I was like “Ah, perfect, perfect.”

[Ingrid laughs]

DONNA: I think Johnny mentioned this, that after season one, they realized that they had two super-talented people who were slightly underutilized and one was Kira Hall and one was Ingrid Hansen. So they both got a speaking part of their own this season which is tremendous and we’re so thrilled for all of them. But yeah, when I heard that you were Lanford, I was like, “Oh yeah.”

Because I said this once before that you, Ingrid, are my favorite combo of performer in that you’re totally insane.

INGRID: Accurate.

DONNA: And you’re totally free but you’re such a pro.

INGRID: Thank you.

DONNA: You’re just such a professional. And both of those things exist within you. And it’s just been a joy.

INGRID: [Makes sounds in Lanford voice] I was just reflecting last night, I was telling my partner that in one of the sessions where we were recording the song “When Mokey met Lanford” and the big duet song that we sang, I was in the recording studio and in the Zoom meeting on Pops, Harvey Mason Junior. and I was like [makes Lanford noise] And then was like, “Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.” You know, producer for yeah…

DONNA: Yeah, president of the Grammys. No big deal.

INGRID: Toni Braxton, Michael Jackson, like all these people. And here he is listening to me go [sings in Lanford voice].

[All laugh]

JOE: He wrote it. Right? He wrote that song? I mean we’ll talk about that song in a bit but like, I mean, I assume that he did it on purpose. Like he wanted to hear it.

DONNA: Yes, it’s him and his team.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Yes, so yeah. He knew it was coming. Oh, he knew.

INGRID: Oh yeah.

JOE: I’ve so many more questions about Lanford but we’ll get into it as we watch this episode because there’s a lot of Lanford in this episode. Let’s jump into it. Let’s not hesitate.

It is morning in Fraggle Rock. The recent winds have been keeping Mokey awake. This is her driving force of this episode and she’s so tired that she mistakes these four fraggles who kind of look like Gobo, Red, Wembley and Boober for her friends. This is not the first time, excuse me. This is not the last time that we’ll see doppelgangers of the fraggles in this season. That’s a little tease for later on.

It makes me wonder, I don’t want to say that all fraggles look alike but maybe there’s like multiples of everybody. Like spares maybe. Is that a thing?

DONNA: I don’t know about that. I don’t know about spares. I think each fraggle is their own individual person. Mokey just had that haze of lack of sleep.

JOE: Yes.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Clouded her vision.

INGRID: I think with the doppelgangers, it’s more like to show that these fraggles, the above ground fraggles and the (in deep voice) below, below (in normal voice) Fraggles are from very different worlds and yet they all have so much in common.

JOE: That’s true, yes.

INGRID: It’s more about the common ground than about being clones.

JOE: One of the fraggles, these not-Fraggle-five fraggles, Mokey refers to as Rhonda.

[Ingrid laughs]

DONNA: Oh, yes, the elusive Rhonda Fraggle.

JOE: Do we finally meet Rhonda?

DONNA: Well, which one of the group is Rhonda? Do we know?

JOE: That’s what I was going to ask you.

DONNA: See what I mean?

JOE: Okay.

DONNA: I mean I think it’s great that we don’t haven’t quite pinned down Rhonda. But I just love that her name is Rhonda. [laughs]

[Ingrid laughs]

DONNA: I’ve loved that one from the first season.

INGRID: Or do the Fraggle five just call every other Fraggle Rhonda?

JOE: Oh, just yeah, like hey, buddy. Hey, champ.

INGRID: Like calling somebody bud or chum or dude.

JOE: So one thing that we’re trying to do. We’re trying to identify a lot of these background fraggles because you all have been doing such a good job of posting behind the scenes stuff on social media this year. And we’re starting to learn like,”Oh, that Fraggle that shows up a few times has a name.”

INGRID: Oh yeah, they all have names.

DONNA: Yeah. They all do.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE:  We’re trying to figure it out.

INGRID: Were a lot of them named by Jurgen [Ferguson]?

DONNA: Jurgen knows all of their names.

INGRID: Did Jurgen name them? I think he the originator?

DONNA: Oh, um, I don’t know. I don’t know…Maybe some were… you know what? I don’t know. That’s a good Jurgen question.

INGRID: I could be wrong.

DONNA: But I hope he’s gonna be on…

INGRID: But I think either Jurgen or one of the builders in LA named them.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: Mm, okay.

DONNA: But their names are like, Dickey.

INGRID: Dickey McSchnoz.

[Joe laughs]

INGRID: Dickey. There’s a Dickey.

DONNA: Halle. There’’s a Halle Fraggle.

JOE: Halle. Oh, yeah. Great.

DONNA: She’s got the hat. Gosh. Is there a gumball?

INGRID: Peach Pit, Cantaloupe.

DONNA: Cantaloupe. Melon.

INGRID: Honeydew. Those are the little baby fraggles.

DONNA: Yeah. Oh, Honeydew. Yeah, those are the babies.

JOE: Oh, I love it. It’s adorable. And we have so much work to do to update the Muppet Wiki. To figure out which one is Honeydew.

INGRID: (in a fake mean voice) Yeah, get on it nerds. [laughs]

JOE: [laughs] (in a fake mean voice) We’re trying. That’s why we’re doing this podcast.

[Ingrid laughs]

JOE: (in normal voice) So Gobo suggests that maybe what they need is a little routine. Let’s get back to the 30-minute work week and Boober has a line. He says, “Nothing like the drudgery of work to soothe the soul.” Which is almost identical to something that he said in the original series episode, “The 30-Minute Work Week.” He says, “Tedium and drudgery are good for the soul.” That was a nice little touch. Did you even notice that? That that was a little callback?

DONNA: The little homage, no, I did not.

INGRID: No.

JOE: So many homages for nerds like us to glom onto.

INGRID: It’s kind of, it’s really true.

JOE: It is true. Yeah. Especially, I mean, when we started this pandemic thing that none of us asked for and suddenly we’re all like out of our regular routines that really threw a lot of us off. Among other reasons. But yes.

 INGRID: Yeah. Yeah.

JOE: Not to bring us down with talking about the pandemic, but, yeah, sorry about that, everybody.

This is where we get our first song of the episode. The song is “Workin’,” which is also from the 

episode “30 Minute Work Week,” from the original series. And everyone gets to show off their signature jobs. Mokey’s in the garden picking radishes. How do you feel about that? About Mokey being the one who seems brave enough to actually venture into the Gorg’s Garden every day to get radishes?

DONNA: I know. I know. I love that. Well, especially now that the gorgs are all, you know, we’re pals-y with the gorgs. For now.

JOE: For now.

DONNA: But yeah. Yeah, what did she do before then? Did she just sort of peek out and just grab what was there? I think she just went throughout the caves to gather. To forage and gather. I assume.

JOE: Sure. The old show, the original Fraggle Rock, it seemed like she, that was her job because she was like almost aloof enough to feel like,”Oh yeah, it’s no big deal. This is the job. So I’m just going to go for it.” And like almost unaware of the danger. And now the new Mokey doesn’t really have that disconnect from reality like the original.

DONNA: I don’t know if that’s actually, I don’t know that it’s a disconnect from reality, Joe. I’ll quibble with you on this.

JOE: Yeah, please. Quibble away.

DONNA: It’s a feeling, a connectedness to the cave itself and the different types of life forms. I think she feels like she knows them and she’s the one who knows them.

INGRID: (in normal voice) Yeah.

JOE: Mmm.

DONNA:  (in voice of Mokey) Guys, this is my lane, okay?

INGRID: Yeah. It’s like a trust in the universe.

DONNA: These mushrooms, they don’t like to get picked past dawn, you know, they’re, you know, nighttime is okay, but after that they get a little grumpy. So.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: (in normal voice) Things like that.

JOE: Great. I like it. Yeah, I’ll take it.

INGRID: She’s in tune. She trusts the universe.

DONNA: (in voice of Mokey) Yeah, totally in tune.

JOE: She does. Yeah, right, right. So it’s not that she’s disconnected from reality. She’s very connected to reality.

DONNA: (in normal voice) To her own reality.

INGRID: Mmhmm.

JOE: Yes, aren’t we all?

INGRID: Wait, who am I? What am I doing? Where do I live?

[All laugh]

JOE: You’re on a podcast. You’re on a podcast, Ingrid.

INGRID: Oh. Okay.

JOE: In the song, Gobo’s dancing with these two creatures that kind of look like Fraggle-sized doozers, they’re a little furry, they’re kind of doozer-colored. I tried to find them. I found they’re from the original series. They’re called Marshy and Bog. I don’t know if that’s still their names, but it’s what they were called in the old show. So in case you were wondering. I don’t know which one’s Marshy and which one’s Bog, but that’s their names.

INGRID: They don’t know either.

JOE: Probably not.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: I believe you.

[Donna laughs]

JOE: And then the only other thing about this scene is that there’s just so many fraggles. And this is, I love that you are doing this in, if not every episode, almost every episode, that there’s just a scene where there’s just like 30 fraggles hanging out in the background. It looks so good every time.

INGRID: Yeah. Yeah.

DONNA: Yeah.

INGRID: I mean, it would go to Jordan Canning, I think, the director of this episode for just, (in low, raspy voice) I mean, we could talk about Jordan a lot. She’s amazing.

DONNA: We love her. She’s our shero.

INGRID: (in normal voice) Yeah.  And she’s so great at animating the world and really cares about seeing the depth of the fraggle universe.

DONNA: Mmhmm.

INGRID: And she’s also a puppet nerd and she really authentically loves the show and loves the puppets and is bringing out these old puppets from the original series and being like, “They need to be here. This guy needs to be in here. Put that thing up there.” Like, yeah. I think a big part of that is Jordan.

DONNA: And the layering of the worlds, and case in point is, you know, Boober doing the laundry and then they pull back and it’s Wembley running forward, doing his little siren thing and then pulls back even further.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: So we’re like hanging off to the side, ready to sort of jump in. And I think Aymee and I did the two fraggles. One has the hose and one has the hose on the wheel and gets yanked out.

INGRID: Mmhmm.

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: So that’s Aymee and I. So we’re all always, you know, doubling up. But I just love that one. That, to me, is like a diorama that unfolds before your eyes. And I think Jordan really excels at that.

INGRID: Oh, yeah.

DONNA: And just making that world seem so huge as you talked about.

JOE: Yeah, and there’s a lot of shots like that throughout this season of long camera pans, like long shots.

INGRID: Oh yeah.

JOE: And things that I don’t think…We always talk about these great puppetry moments that you don’t know are really hard to do or a really big performance because they look so natural. Like that’s the, obviously you’d know this, but that’s the point of them.

DONNA: Mmhmm.

JOE: But I think what Jordan is doing and the other directors as well is creating these long camera shots or angles or whatever that are supposed to be big and cinematic, but we don’t think about how impossible that must be to do when you’re four feet up and, you know, and you’re trying to hide the puppeteers and people are running around below the stage. I can’t picture it at all. I’m glad that Jordan could picture it so she could direct it.

DONNA: Right. And I think all of our directors, J. J. [Johnson] had some really cool shots too, that were pushing through with Red and Boober, pushing through to everyone going nope to the nope scene. I loved that one too because the set is so huge. And to be able to show how huge the set is and just again with the layers and such. And this is a non sequitur, but I think my absolute favorite shot was, I posted this on social media. It was three Mokeys. It was (in voice of Mokey) “Maybe he went this way. Lanford! What?” (in normal voice) And then you see her trip and then you see her swinging from a branch where it was three Mokeys,

INGRID: Yes!

DONNA: Where it was Kira, Ben [Durocher] and then I was on the last one. Just so amazing. And it was, there was one sort of big column of dirt in between, which is where Kira hid behind that. And then Ben took the stunt Mokey and made her fall and then she fell out of sight and then the camera swoops in and goes over and tilts down onto. Then we see Mokey dangling. I’ve got a blue suit on so you don’t see me. But I just thought, wow. And we got it on like within four takes. I think we got it.

INGRID: Yeah. Yeah.

DONNA: And it was towards the end when like, man, our camera A, it’s a four-person team on our main camera. And wow, they were just, I used to just go and talk to them and say, how are you guys doing this? And they say, “We do it just like you guys. We’re just always communicating. You get this. I’ll get this. I’ll do this. And you do this. But it’s pretty much just like you guys. We work as a team. We try to read each other’s minds.” But just really some gorgeous directing, gorgeous camera work.

INGRID: Yeah, it’s a whole thing. It’s always a dance with the camera because the cameras…You know, a lot of older Muppet stuff, you see a lot of locked shots where, you know, you might see a two-minute scene play out in a locked shot where it’s all just about the puppets living their lives. But when you have the moving camera, you’re always doing a dance where you’re trying to, you know, if you have those long, long shots and there’s 30 puppeteers and you get one puppeteer’s head and “Oh, we got to do it again. Oh, we got to do it again, you know?

JOE: Mmhmm. Yep.

INGRID: So the camera operators are doing a real dance too.

JOE: Well, and the fact that because you’re already in season two, and you don’t have that time that you probably had to take at the beginning of season one, where everyone’s still kind of getting used to each other. And you have that shorthand of collaboration where you really, it seems like, the Fraggle Rock team can do anything. Because like, I know how you move and you can trust me that I’m going to do the right thing and etc, etc. It is beautiful that the collaboration is so successful with all of you.

DONNA: Ohl, thanks.

JOE: Hey, you’re welcome.

DONNA: Thanks.

INGRID: It’s really special.

DONNA: Yeah it is.

INGRID: I always liken it to being like the puppet show, the part that gets on camera is kind of like the tip of the iceberg.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: And below the ocean, like below the bottom of the camera’s frame, is all these bodies crammed together and rotating around and hiding, and having to see on a web of monitors. And sometimes you get people moving the monitor mid-shot so you can go from one place to another so you can see it when you go around a corner and it’s really, really like I really nerd out on that dance.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: Is like the dance of below frame.

DONNA: Mmhmm.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: Yeah, it’s fascinating. Someone just put a GoPro down there. Show us what it’s like.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Well, with the BTS that we posted you can see, I mean, there’s not, there’s really not a lot. We can only get our heads out so much because we have to see the monitors. So we can’t duck our heads down completely or we just won’t be able to see anything.

JOE: Sure. Yeah.

DONNA: And it’s not like, I think Caroll Spinney and I guess Matt Vogel now, they have a monitor on their chest. So their head is already down.

INGRID: Mmhmm, yeah, I did as well.

DONNA: Wha?

INGRID: I did as well, in Heart.

DONNA: Oh, right. But that gets, you know, that gets the head down, but they’re already in something. So yeah, not a lot, it’s happened a few times. I think it happened on Dark Crystal where someone wore a monitor on their chest and that does get their head out. But most of the time it’s just us, you know, trying to scrunch. Our chiropractors love us. [laughs]

INGRID: Yes, very scrunchy.

JOE: I’m sure. I’m sure.

DONNA: We keep them in business.

JOE: [laughs] So the doozers are setting up wind chimes all over Fraggle Rock so they could track the gusties. And as Cotterpin is showing off the first one, Wrench and Turbo are blowing on it. And it looks like they’re puffing their cheeks out. Is that a puppet effect? Is that really, can those doozers do that?

DONNA: I don’t remember if that was practical or if that’s a little CG embellishment. I don’t recall. Do you remember, Ingy?

INGRID: I think it’s just the mouth. I think it’s just the mouth mechanism moving. That’s my guess. Because the doozer’s face is all this very delicate, flocked foamy material. And I imagine that when you pull the lip down with the lip trigger, it does do that to the cheeks. (in low, raspy voice) But I don’t know. 

DONNA: Yeah. Don’t know.

JOE: Or they’re just real living creatures.

DONNA: Yeah.

INGRID: Yeah. 

JOE: And that’s just what happens when you, yeah, blow on a wind chime. Well, whatever the answer is, I’m impressed. Like if it’s CG, I didn’t know it was CG. If it’s a puppet effect, I’m super impressed. If it’s just something that they’ve always been able to do, that’s awesome.

So let’s talk a little bit about Cotterpin, since she’s in this scene. Did anything change for you about Cotterpin between season one and two?

DONNA: Really? I really love how steady she is. I think what changed might’ve been just, Johnny and I just got a little crazier in between takes.

JOE: Good. Yes.

DONNA: With our–Oh my gosh, okay, I have to tell you, I drew Johnny’s name for Secret Santa. And this was really rough and I thought, “Oh crap.” You know, because it’s Johnny. You can’t phone it in. You can’t just get him a gift card. So I went to the props department and everyone and just gathered little trinkets, like broken bits of doozer sticks. You know, a broken doozer helmet and I turned them all into ornaments.

JOE: Oh, what a great idea.

DONNA: Johnny loves Christmas. I love Christmas, but I thought, what am I going to do for the tree topper? And I was like, “Oh, I have to make The Architect as a tree topper.” So somewhere, maybe I can post this, I have to get permission, but I got a styrofoam head. I actually got, they gave me a visor and antenna, actual doozer antenna. And I think Jason [Weber] gave me an extra little wig and mustache for him.

JOE: So good.

DONNA: And so the head looked exactly like Architect. And then for his little body, I did strips of script and it was all our ad libs. (imitates Architect voice) “Cotterpin, did I ever tell you about the time I was Fabio’s pool boy?” (in voice of Cotterpin) “Tell me again, sir.”

[Joe and Ingrid laugh]

DONNA: (in normal voice) So it was just those two lines, but in strips all around and I curled them to look like a gown.

INGRID: Oh my god.

JOE: Oh, that’s so good.

DONNA: So we went a little nuts. Yeah. And then I put it on the tree in the lobby next to craft service. And he discovered it with a bunch of people around, which was really fun. So I think just really, we just went nuts. And I really love that the Architect just got crazier and crazier and wearing the strawberry hats and the wigs and all of that stuff. I just love, I think we ended every scene with Cotterpin going, (in voice of Cotterpin) “Uuuuuuuh.”

[Joe and Ingrid laugh]

DONNA: (in normal voice) “This hat’s a winner, don’t you think?” (in voice of Cotterpin) “Uuuuuuuuuh.” (in normal voice) Some of the “uhs” made it in and some did not. 

JOE: It’s her new catchphrase. Yeah. I just love when there’s a character that can literally get away with saying anything. And the Architect does it for me. So good.

DONNA: Yeah. And they’re a good pair. She’s a good straight man, I think, for him. She’s just all about business and getting the job done. And yeah.

JOE: But that’s also The Storyteller. The Storyteller does that for me where she can say or do anything. It’s in character and it’s always hysterical.

INGRID: Oh yeah.

DONNA: Gosh. There was this one…[laughs] There was this one time, right after “Radishes and Strawberries” where Boober leaves and then they come back and it’s the two sides are going at each other and Storyteller’s sort of left in the middle trying to keep each side calm. And so they just let me improvise for a really long time. It didn’t…none of it made it in.

[Ingrid laughs]

DONNA: I just went on and on but I think one of my favorite was, (in voice of Storyteller) “Guys, I’ve been divorced like seven times. I get it. Okay?”

[Joe and Ingrid laugh]

DONNA: “But you can’t come to blows even though you really really want to. And when I say really, I know because husband number four. Let me tell you.”

[All laugh]

DONNA: (laughing) I just went off. They just let me.

JOE: Oh, that’s good stuff. And now I’m curious what Fraggle marriage is like. We’ve never seen a married Fraggle. Have we?

DONNA: (in normal voice) Oh, yeah. I may have effed with the lore a bit.

JOE: No, add more lore. That’s what we want. Build on the lore. Well, in season three Storyteller’s eighth marriage. We’ll look forward to it.

[Ingrid laughs]

DONNA: That’s right. And you know who she has her eye on.

JOE: I do.

INGRID: [laughs] Starts with an m- and ends with an -att.

DONNA: (in voice of Storyteller) His mustache is a song.

[Ingrid laughs]

JOE: It’s beautiful. It’s so good. So Mokey comes back from the Gorgs’ garden and she comes across a giant plant that has been uprooted and knocked over by the wind. And who is it? It’s Lanford.

[Ingrid makes Lanford noises]

DONNA: (in normal voice) Yay!

JOE: Lanford was maybe the number one character that I heard about after season one of people being like, yeah, it’s great that we got the Fraggles back and all these background characters and the Gorgs etc. etc. But where’s Lanford?

INGRID: Really?

JOE: Yes. I heard a lot of people asking for Lanford.

INGRID: Wow. Interesting.

JOE: Yeah. So great. I’m glad he’s back. So did you do any research of what the old Lanford acted like or spoke like, anything like that? Or did you just feel like you had carte blanche to do whatever you wanted?

INGRID: Both.

JOE: Great.

INGRID: Yeah. I watched a bunch of the OG, re-watched a bunch of the OG episodes with Lanford in them. And then also because the puppet was quite redesigned with a very different shape and all these different things. And I felt completely free to go wild with it, which is so much fun. And you know, there’s so much leeway because [laughs] he’s a plant.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: So you can do whatever you want.

DONNA: Ingy, did you get a chance to, because oftentimes if it’s a new character, the creature shop, when we have a moment, can go in and play with the character, make friends, and ask for any sort of modifications, you got a chance to do that right? With the pot and everything?

INGRID: Yeah, a little bit. I mean, it was always… yeah, I did a little bit. And then, poor Dusty in the creature shop. I really worked that mouth pallet on that puppet trying to make him scrunch his face into weird little expressions.

DONNA: Yeah.

INGRID: And eventually I kept peeling his lip away and my fingies would poke through and poor Dusty had to glue it back in many, many times.

The thing is, with that beautiful puppet too, is it’s all carved out of soft foam. So beautifully carved. But the Fraggle set is coated with this like scritchy fake rock stuff that’s quite sharp.

DONNA: Mmhmm. It’s like the scratchy side of Velcro and the fraggles are the soft side. So you can imagine.

[Joe laughs]

INGRID: And the soft foam puppets that aren’t even covered with the fleece, they’re so much more vulnerable to getting sliced by that. So I had to navigate that, keeping the leafies safe. 

JOE: Which must have been hard for a character who’s literally rooted to the ground.

INGRID: (laughing) Totally. (in normal voice) Totally. And you also have your face in your body and your torso like smushed up against the set all the time. So, yeah, I cut up his leafies a few times. Needed to glue them back together.

JOE: He’ll be okay. They grow back. That’s what leaves do. Yeah.

DONNA: He’s a hardy breed.

JOE: That’s what puppets do, right? They just grow back.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: Great.

DONNA: I hear all the wrangler’s going, “Oh, God. Oh, geez.”

[Joe and Ingrid laugh]

JOE: Mokey immediately asks him if he wants to come live with her and Red  Like, she doesn’t even like, it’s not even like, do you want to get out of here?

DONNA: No.

JOE: Do you want to…like, what are your hopes and dreams? It’s just immediately like, “Oh, you’re sentient. Do you want a new at home?” And Lanford’s like, “Yeah, let’s do it. Best friends.” 

DONNA: (in voice of Mokey) When you know, you know. You know, Joe? When you know, you know.

JOE: When you know, you know. It’s true.

INGRID: And I feel like that’s a lot of little kid relationships too, right? It’s like you’re five and there’s another kid who’s near, like, lives next door to you who just moves in, who’s also five. You’re like, “You’re five? I’m five. We’re best friends. Done.” Like, there’s no, it’s just.

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: (in normal voice) Yeah.

INGRID: You don’t have the barrier.

JOE: That’s literally happened to me and other muppet fans. Like, there are people who, and people who are puppeteers, that you probably know, who’s like, we just had that moment of, “We should be friends. We have this thing in common. Let’s just be friends. We’re friends now. It’s done. Oh, by the way, I’m Joe.” Like, that’s it. You know, that’s the first thing we say.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Yep. Can relate.

JOE: These are the things that bring us together. Yes. In outer space, Doc is building a model of a wind turbine. And when she turns on the fan, it breaks. But she also hears the doozers’ wind chime inside the fraggle hole. She wonders out loud if maybe it was Mrs. Shimmelfinney installed a wind chime and immediately Mrs. Shimmelfinney from off screen shouts, “No.” Do you know who that was as Mrs. Shimmelfinney?

INGRID: I voiced Shimmelfinney in season one, but I think that that Shimmelfinney might have been my bud Kira. I don’t know. That’s just a guess.

JOE: We’ll have to ask Kira, if that was them. Because I’m curious. There was no credit as far as I could find. So, like, one line, should still get a credit. Gotta add it to that Muppet Wiki page.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: It was Rhonda. It was Rhonda

JOE: Rhonda. It’s always Rhonda. 

DONNA: I don’t know.

INGRID: I love that they kept the Shimmelfinney name and the name for her.

JOE: Is Mrs. Shimmelfinney’s first name Rhonda?

DONNA: Rhonda.

[Ingrid laughs]

JOE: Did we just crack this wide open?

INGRID: (in low voice) Yes.

[Joe laughs]

INGRID: (in normal voice) Everybody who’s not already named is named, Rhonda.

JOE: Done. Yeah. Updating the wiki now. Later in the episode, we’ll skip ahead. Just so we’re not jumping back and forth with Doc and Sprocket too much. But later in the episode, Doc is investigating the location of the wind chime. And she manages to get like her entire upper body inside the fraggle hole, which is a great image. But also, I think this is the furthest any silly creature has ever been into Fraggle Rock.

[Ingrid and Donna make sounds of interest]

JOE: Think about that. Kind of makes me feel like season three, she’s going all the way in.

INGRID: Ooooh.

DONNA: I don’t know. Who knows?

JOE: I don’t know either.

DONNA: I know it’s exciting to think about.

JOE: Yep.

DONNA: World’s colliding.

JOE: That’s right. Someone’s got to do it. Might as well be Lilli Cooper.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: Who’s wonderful on this show, by the way. Like, I–

DONNA: She’s swell. She’s just great.

JOE: She really is.

DONNA: Love her.

JOE: Yeah. What a treat. I love the way she performs Doc.

INGRID: I love that she got to sing.

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: Yeah. Finally.

JOE: Again, what we were all asking for after season one is you have Lilli Cooper on a musical show. And you don’t have her sing?

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: And Aymee Garcia. And Aymee Garcia too.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: Yes.

DONNA: She was just in, I think, a lot of choral numbers and the occasional step out line. But yeah, to have two such amazing singers just really get to belt it all out. It’s just– Oh, so great.

JOE: How lucky we are.

DONNA: We are. We are the lucky ones.

JOE: We are. So Mokey brings Lanford into Fraggle Rock to meet everybody. Okay, so she’s walking into the scene holding Lanford. And like you said, it’s a jumble of human beings below. I cannot picture what position the two of you are in.

INGRID: Headlock.

JOE: Or if there’s even just two of you, if there might be more.

DONNA: There’s a name for it, Joe.

JOE: Tell me.

DONNA: It’s the benevolent headlock.

INGRID: Yes.

JOE: [laughs] I’ve never heard of this before.

INGRID: Donna wraps–

DONNA: Which is also my punk band name. That’s my punk band name.

[Ingrid laughs]

JOE: I love that.

DONNA: But I literally am–It’s like I have both my arms around Ingrid’s head. So if you can imagine, I’m holding Ingrid’s head. [laughs]

JOE: Right.

DONNA: Hence the headlock. So Mokey is– And the pot is right up against my forearm.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: And so Ingrid’s body is pretty much right up against mine. And so Mokey’s right arm is hopefully attached to the pot. And that way it’s just two of us. When it’s not attached to the pot and someone else is doing it, then we’re like a three-person train, which is a little tough.

And then… what about you with your leaves, Ingy? Were you just always pulled in? Your arms?

INGRID: Usually when we walk, Lanford’s got his leaves to all tucked into the pot where you don’t see them. But yeah, Donna’s–like the arm that Donna uses to perform Mokey’s arm rod is literally wrapped around my neck.

DONNA: [laughs] You’re so cold.

INGRID: And yeah. And then I get a Donna hug all day long.

DONNA: All day.

JOE: That’s nice.

DONNA: That’s right. That’s why puppeteers always have a spare deodorant in their bag, too. You’re welcoming, Ingy.

INGRID: Thank you. Yeah, we smell great.

JOE: Can you imagine having a job where you just get to be hugged all day? Like that sounds really nice.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Yeah. I would think that might get old, but we would–

INGRID: Like you’re a Disney mascot.

JOE: Oh sure, yeah.

DONNA: But we would say, okay, let’s go–And we’re going up because we have to go up together and come down together. Because we’re literally attached.

JOE: Right.

DONNA: And then walking was the hardest part, but I think we got it. But I think I ended up just sort of indicating to you in a huge way that I was walk-ing.

INGRID: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

DONNA: So I’m kind of, you see Mokey kind of marching when she has the pot. That’s because I’m basically sort of indicating to Ingrid that this is how we’re moving. And this is the cadence and all of that stuff.

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: But It took a while to find all that stuff. But that scene where carrying Lanford and then the pot of soup, dumping the soup, and then [makes transferring sound effect] sticking Lanford.

INGRID: Oh yeah.

DONNA: That was tricky. Puppets and props are always tricky, but yeah. Clever cutting.

JOE: So let’s talk about that. Because, so first of all, yes. So she, like you said, she dumps out the soup, and then Lanford goes into the pot. But it looks like there’s real soup in the pot at first. But there obviously has to be a hole for Ingrid’s arm.

INGRID: Multiple pots, Joe.

DONNA: Yes. And clever cutting.

JOE: Get out of here.

INGRID: Yes. Multiple pots.

JOE: Can I tell you how dumb I am that it didn’t even occur to me there would be two pots?

[Donna and Ingrid laugh]

INGRID: We have multiples of lots of things on this show, and that’s how we make the magic, right? It’s like that magician trick of pulling something down, pulling it back up, and oh, it’s somehow changed. Yeah, it’s–

[Donna and Joe laugh]

DONNA: Totally.

INGRID: Now down. We’re very tricksy.

DONNA: That’s right. You found the magic. You believed the magic.

JOE: I did. I believed it. I believe everything you all do. This is why I’m doing a podcast so that I can educate myself on how multiple pots work.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: So Boober immediately identifies Lanford as a night-blooming yellow-leafed death wart. Germ capability: TBD.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: Very Boober. And he’s got a side hobby that he loves botany. I love that we’re learning so much about Boober.

DONNA: Mmhmm. Yeah. Agreed

JOE: That’s interesting.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: That was a fun one.

JOE: He does not have a name yet. Wembley loves naming things. “Uuuh, Shirt.” Wow.

DONNA: So great. So dumb.

JOE: How close Lanford came to being named Shirt.

DONNA: Shirt.

INGRID:([in voice of Lanford) No.

DONNA: No. No. Lanford has an opinion on that.

JOE: Mokey meditates on it. She asks the cave. The cave comes up with Lanford and Lanford loves it.

INGRID: (in normal voice) Mokey could have said anything and Lanford would have loved it.

DONNA: Except Shirt.

INGRID: Except Shirt. Yeah.

JOE: Right. Yeah.

INGRID: But I think it’s that kind of preferential thing where Lanford’s kind of like, you know, when you meet a cat or a dog that intensely loves one person and then (laughing) intensely hates everybody else.

JOE: Yes.

INGRID: (in normal voice) Yeah. He’s a bit like that.

JOE: Lanford is a really good hype man for Mokey.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: You know, just yeah, whatever you say. Yes, I’m on board. Let’s do it.

DONNA: Mmhmm. Yeah.

INGRID: 100%

JOE: Yeah, so Mokey puts Lanford in Boober’s Bisque pot and I like Boober says, “Well, that pot’s contaminated now. Enjoy keeping it forever.” And he does. He does keep it forever.

INGRID: [laughs] That’s funny.

DONNA: That’s right.

[Ingrid makes Lanford noises]

JOE: That night, Lanford is having trouble sleeping. So Mokey is joining him for gong meditation, which is loud, but effective. And Pogey comes in and starts playing the flute loudly and poorly to try to help. Obviously, Red is not having any of this. But what I love about this is that Mokey and Lanford are wearing matching radish pajamas.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Yesss!

JOE: Adorable!

INGRID: Yeah, we’re pretty cute.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: Do they make those in my size? Is what I want to know.

INGRID: Oh. There’s a bunch of cool Fraggle swag out now.

DONNA: Mmhmm.

INGRID: Like sweatshirts.

JOE: That’s true. Yeah. We were seeing that company, I don’t know how to pronounce it. If it’s results or rsvlts. It’s like R-S-V-L-T-S and they’ve been making these great Henson-branded shirts, like button down shirts.

INGRID: You can get a Wembley shirt. Banana shirts. Right?

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: They’re doing the Wembley banana tree shirt, which is amazing. I need one.

DONNA: So awesome.

INGRID: Also, like only real nerds would recognize what that’s from. You know what I mean?

JOE: Yes. I do.

INGRID: Because it doesn’t have a big picture of Wembley on it or anything. But true nerds will be like, (in low voice) “Oh my god, that’s a Wembley banana tree shirt.”

DONNA: Right.

JOE: If you know, you know.

DONNA: Yeah. Wear it out to Target and the grocery store and you find your people.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: (in normal voice) Yeah.

JOE: Or you find all the Jimmy Buffett fans who are just like, “Yeah, Margaritaville. Great.”

INGRID: [laughs] And you’re like, “No, it’s Wembley. God.”

JOE: God. Jimmy Buffett fans.

In the Gorg’s garden, Junior’s raking and gardening and Pa runs out in his armor and sword. He’s ready to defend his castle against the Fraggles. I also have to assume that these are from like props from the original show because I know you guys just reuse that stuff all the time. It’s just gorgeous like the armor and the big wooden sword. It’s just pretty.

INGRID: I think some of the armor might be new. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know.

JOE: Oh yeah.

INGRID: Ma’s costume is all original.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: With some small updates and stuff, which just blows my mind that I get to perform in a puppet that parts of it are older than I am and that it doesn’t even smell. Like, they must’ve taken such good care of it.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: The rare opportunity I get to do something like visit one of the Muppet workshops or the Henson workshops, I usually go in with the secret goal of like, I want to touch something that like Jim touched or like that’s from like the old, the old days. And sometimes you’ll find one thing and it’s like, “Oh, okay, I’ll just reach out my hand, put my finger on it. Okay, that’s like, that’s good enough. I have a connection to this thing that came from 40 years ago.”

But like, you’re literally encompassed in it when you’re in Ma Gorg.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: That’s pretty cool.

INGRID: Yeah. Yeah. (in low voice) It’s pretty wild.

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: It is wild. And I think The Storyteller is also OG.

INGRID: Really?

DONNA: She’s been refurbished. Yeah. Yeah. I heard that.

INGRID: Oh, I didn’t know that.

JOE: Oh, that’s cool. Yeah. I mean, I have to assume like most of those background characters are, you know, why would you rebuild some of these hyper specific characters, but they’ve been sitting in a drawer for decades. So why not just use them?

INGRID: Yeah. The cave creatures, yes. Although background fraggles are all new builds.

JOE: Sure. Yeah.

INGRID: But all the– most of those cave creatures and the rock monsters and stuff. The soft foam doesn’t degrade, which is amazing. So the squishy mango bird and the little rock monstery creatures, all those things, they are probably repainted or touched up or something, but other than that, it’s like that foam just doesn’t rot. It’s amazing.

JOE: That’s cool.

DONNA: (in voice of Mokey) And Begoony. Begoony is renamed.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: (in normal voice) I have a shot of a terrified Mokey next to Begoony.

[Joe and Ingrid laugh]

DONNA: That I’ll probably never post, but it was like, (in voice of Mokey) Ugh, PTSD.

JOE: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Her abusive ex.

DONNA: (in normal voice) Yeah. [Makes disgusted noise] Scary.

JOE: Let’s talk a little bit about Ma. She doesn’t show up much in this episode, but so in season one, we were…the fans were kind of complaining a little bit about the fact that Ma and Pa Gorg are like barely seen outside the castle. They kind of just stick their head out the window and have a couple lines and then retreat back. So how does it feel to get to do so much more with Ma Gorg in this season?

INGRID: Oh, it’s a totally different zone. Like, they’re full-body characters, and so they don’t really play that well when it’s just a shot of your face peeking out a window.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: And then getting to play with them out in the space, interacting with each other, dancing. Like, it’s just so much fun. And it’s kind of, there’s like an infinite potential to improve upon it and find the nuances of these characters and how they live.

Like, I got to do, there’s a fun shot in I think this episode that Jordan Canning encouraged me to do where Ma is walking back into the castle and she goes, [makes sobbing noises]

JOE: Yeah. That’s in the episode.

INGRID: And she’s wagging her bottom side to side. [makes sobbing noises]

JOE: She has this sashay to her. Yeah.

INGRID: And that was a discovery where it’s like the puppet’s torso is so large that in order to articulate the booty, I think I like sandwiched my elbows into the side of the puppet and then used that force to be able to twist the booty. Cause of course, the puppet’s booty isn’t connected to my booty. There’s no… right? It’s like, [laughs] yeah, so it’s always like weird trying to figure out how they can sit and lie down without the torsos collapsing.

But so much fun getting to play with Ben Durocher and Andy Hayward who were inside of Junior and Pa. And, yeah, it was…it was…I can’t wait to do more. Hopefully. Hopefully!

JOE: Hopefully. I love that this podcast we’re really getting down to like how gorg booties work. I think that’s…

[Ingrid laughs]

DONNA: Yeah, finally, right? Finally.

JOE: We’re doing important work here. Yeah, yeah, getting down to the meat of the matter here. 

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: So Junior has discovered that he has a new crop of strawberries in his garden. Oh, right next to, he calls out his prize radish Geraldine, which is also a reference to the old show.

INGRID: Yeah. Geraldine.

JOE: But, yeah, strawberries, they’re everywhere. That’s, it might be important. We’ll see. Keep watching kids. Yeah.

DONNA: Might be. Hmm.

JOE: In the next scene, Mokey is teaching a painting class, or at least leading a painting class with the other fraggles, but she is very distracted by taking care of Lanford. All the fraggles are wearing very cute little smocks and they have paint on the end of their baloobiuses that they’re using as paintbrushes. What is this substance that’s at the end of their tails? Like, is it just like a piece of plastic that’s been clipped on or something else?

DONNA: Yeah, it’s like plastic that’s like super bendy and shiny. I don’t know how they do it. I don’t know how they do it.

INGRID: I mean, I imagine acrylic paint is like liquid plastic, right? So I imagine you could take a smooth surface like glass or plexi, paint a thick layer of acrylic paint onto it, peel it up when it’s dry, and then, you know, like double stick it to a tail or something. I’m sure it’s way more difficult and complicated than that.

DONNA: Yeah, just something that won’t leach color onto the puppet. So when they splatter Boober, of course, those are all basically stickers because they can’t put actual paint on him. I just remember that that scene was very hard to shoot because the easels are all in a semi-circle and then the rock that Ingrid is under.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: And so we have just very limited space and all of those easels are on a wooden something to hold them up. So I just remember a lot of tripping and I think we all had an assistant to do the tail to do the painting.

INGRID: Yes, that part.

DONNA: And so it’s like holding the body away but looking over the shoulder and then knowing when to do this to Boober and this slaps him in the face. It was very… it took a long time. I remember, I remember that.

INGRID: Yeah. [laughs]

DONNA: And then figuring out what the selfie would be, the little selfie bit. That was interesting too. Fun.

[Crosstalk]

JOE: Let’s talk about that for a second because first of all, the first time I watched this episode, when Mokey says, “We’ll just do a selfie.” And I thought my first, in that instant is, “No, don’t try to throw like current slang, like selfie. What is that?” Of course not thinking the fact that they don’t even have a camera. And yeah, so she and Lanford pose. She runs and paints a little bit. Poses again, runs and paints a little bit. And the Fraggles just watching her go back and forth. Hysterical.

[Ingrid laughs]

JOE: But yeah, you have to hit that same pose. Posing at no one in particular, by the way, over and over again.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: Is that…was that difficult?

DONNA: It was a challenge to see it in the script and go, “Oh crap, I have to make this come to life somehow.” And so Ingrid and I are going, “Huh, how do we do this? How do we do it?” And, you know, how do we physically execute it and how do we come up with something that’s funny. 

So I think we, I seem to recall that we threw a few ideas around, but I think this was the one that we settled on. That we pose and then, you know, Mokey remembers it. Goes and paints a little bit and then pose again. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[Ingrid laughs]

DONNA: So, yeah, it was, it was tricky to do, but it was one of those times where you see something in a script and go, “Okay, I got to, I got to pull this off. Huh.”

JOE: Yeah. Yeah.

DONNA: Yeah, you try some stuff.

JOE: Well, you pulled it off great. Yeah. I thought it came out very, very funny. 

DONNA: Thanks.  And Ingrid, so because Lanford’s in the pot on the rock, so Ingrid has basically her head shoved into the styrofoam rock so her arm can get through the rock and through the pot and into the puppet.

So yeah, you were pretty uncomfy that day.

INGRID: I get real squarshed.

JOE: And you have to hit the exact same pose like four or five times in a row. 

INGRID: Well, I think the fun thing about it is Mokey could suggest anything and Lanford would play along.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: And he doesn’t necessarily even really know what they’re doing. But he just knows that she’s going, “Hah.” So he’s going, “Bah.” And then she runs away and comes back and goes, “Hah.” And he goes, “Bah.”

[All laugh]

DONNA: Right. You were like a half beat behind.

INGRID: Yeah, she could do anything and he would copy it, right?

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: Because he just thinks she’s the coolest and loves her so much.

JOE: I did notice that like, he is kind of like, “Oh, we’re doing this again? Okay.”

INGRID: Yeah. He doesn’t really know what’s going on. 

JOE: He has that moment though. “Oh, another one? Sure.” Yeah.

INGRID: Yeah. He’s just, he’s like, you know, my cool big sister is doing this, so I’m doing it. 

JOE: Yeah. That’s great. Red confronts Mokey about the Lanford situation. She says, ever since Lanford showed up, she’s been a little obsessed. And as she says this, Mokey has gotten into a pot and is sitting there with fake leaves on her hands, which is adorable. So you got to see what it felt like, Donna.

DONNA: Yes.

JOE: To be inside of a pot like Ingrid has been for this whole episode.

DONNA: Right.

JOE: Yeah. So, she’s embracing the joys of soil living, which sounds like a real thing.

INGRID: I bet it is.

DONNA: Right?

INGRID: Well, there’s a whole movement of people who say you have to stand with your bare feet on the dirt 10 minutes a day to ground your ions (voice gets progressively quieter) or something. It’s supposed to be good.

JOE: Okay.

DONNA: (in voice of Mokey) Yeah. I’m all over that. I’m all over that. Yeah.

[Ingrid laughs]

JOE: Some of us don’t live anywhere near dirt. You know. [laughs]

INGRID: (in normal voice: Just get a Tupperware container. Fill it with some dirt. It’s the same thing.

JOE: Sure. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. I gotta get those ions through my feet. Yeah.

INGRID: Gotta get ‘em.

JOE: But yeah, they have a big argument. Mokey storms out with Lanford. Meanwhile, the doozers are continuing to hang wind chimes all over the rock. And Cotterpin says everything’s going perfectly, which as we all know, when you say that on a TV show, the rule is that something has to go terribly wrong. Large Marvin shows up and he’s starting to eat her wind chime. She says, “Why can’t you just eat the buildings?” And he says, “What buildings?” because they got so distracted building these wind chimes, they forgot to build new buildings.

DONNA: (in normal voice) Mmhmm.

JOE: And not for nothing. It’s Cottenpin’s fault for making these wind chimes edible to begin with.

DONNA: You know, that’s kind of, (in voice of Cotterpin) That’s what I do, Joe. That’s just what I do.

JOE: Sorry, Cotterpin.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: It happens.

INGRID: I’m so curious.

DONNA: Uuuuhh.

[All laugh]

JOE: That also feels like a way you could be like, “Conversation over, Joe. Move on to the next topic. Uuuh.

ALL: Uuuuuh.

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: (in normal voice) Sorry, Ingy. What were you saying?

JOE: Ingrid, you were saying.

INGRID: No, I’m so curious. Do the fans, how do the fans feel about Marvin? Because I love him. And he’s so weird. And he doesn’t really like, he’s so unique from all the rest of the fraggle designs. And you’re like, “What is this like melty, (laughing) big creature?

JOE: Yeah. No, I love Large Marvin.

INGRID: (in normal voice) I love him.

JOE: So, in I think it was the last episode with “The Twisty-Turny-Thon and he’s got this like beautiful track suit on, which is exactly what a guy like Large Marvin would be wearing.

INGRID: Yes.

JOE: And, you know, in season one of Back to the Rock, when there’s the council of…

INGRID: Yes. The goofballs.

JOE: Really, it’s like all of the, quote unquote adult Fraggles. And Large Marvin gets to be a part of that. And yeah, he just brings something really unique to Fraggle Rock. And like any Fraggle who visually looks different is automatically exciting.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: And I’m grateful that unlike the original series, even though his name is Large Marvin, there’s no fat jokes.

INGRID: No.

JOE: He does like to eat. They all like to eat.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: But yeah, there’s no fat phobia surrounding Large Marvin.

INGRID: Yeah. Oh gosh. No.

DONNA: Mmhmm.

INGRID: Yeah. Yeah.

DONNA: Yeah. That track suit is just everything.

JOE: Beautiful.

INGRID: It’s so good.

JOE: Yeah. If we can just bring back Marlon Fraggle and team them up again. Do you remember Marlon?

DONNA: Mmm, uh, remind me?

JOE: Yeah. So he’s like a Peter Lorre character.

DONNA: Oh yeah!

JOE: He had like one big eye. One small eye.

DONNA: Oh yeah.

INGRID: Oh, yeah.

JOE: Yeah. There. Ingrid’s doing an impression.

DONNA: Yeah.

[Joe laughs]

INGRID: I will say, the one thing that distresses me from the OG series is the episodes where the Fraggles have beards.

JOE: Tell me why.

INGRID: I just don’t like it. It’s instinctual. I just look at it and go, “Nope. No goatees. Get ‘em off.” Do you know what I’m talking about?

JOE: So, do you hate The World’s Oldest Fraggle?

INGRID: No, no, no, because that’s like a specific character beard if that makes sense. But it’s like the weird kind of chinstrap goatees. I’m sure I’m going to make a lot of fans really mad by saying this, but yeah.

JOE: Are you talking about just like when the fur from the puppet is too far up on the chin or do they literally have a beard?

INGRID: No. You watch season one. I think it’s especially in the opening credits. There’s some of the background Fraggles who have these like goatees that are, you know, specific goatees on that. And it’s weird. I don’t like it.

JOE: All right. I’m gonna look for that.

[Ingrid laughs]

JOE: Okay. I’m gonna be honest, I’m having trouble picturing it, which is a good thing.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Mmhmm.

JOE: That means that if it’s creepy, it has escaped my notice.

INGRID: (laughing) It’s not specifically creepy. I just don’t like it. (in normal voice) I don’t know why.

JOE: That’s okay. There’s only two Fraggles who are allowed to have facial hair and it’s World’s Oldest Fraggle and Traveling Matt. Everyone else, clean shaven or should go home.

DONNA: That’s right.

JOE: Yep.

INGRID: Yep. Yeah. Taking a stance. Bring on the haters. I’m taking a stance.

JOE: [laughs] So we get our next song here. It’s the song “Just Takes Two.” This song, this is such a highlight of this episode, the two of you performing this song.

DONNA: Yes.

JOE: Lots of singing plants in the background. I’m sure they all have names. We don’t need to go through them, but they’re all visually beautiful. There’s so much great choreography here. Tell me what’s the process for learning the choreography for a Fraggle scene?

DONNA: Well, we actually had like rehearsal time on this because we block shoot. And this was our first block. This episode 103 was in the first block. So we have like a half day-ish rehearsal time. And that’s when we choreographed it all. So it’s between Ingrid and me and Johnny, who assisted me and Aymee who assisted you.

INGRID: Yeah, on the hands.

DONNA: We kind of just, we were choreographing it and learning it all at the same time because we’re all pretty experienced puppeteers. So how about this? Does this look good? Does this look good? Yeah, let’s do this. Okay, so after this, we’ll do this bit. Okay. And so we basically, and I think someone probably filmed it just so we would have a record of it.

JOE: Oh cool. Yeah. That’s good.

DONNA: So that we would remember on shoot day. But yeah, and little things like when Mokey swaps sides, Johnny has to let go of the rods and I have to kind of grab them and then run to the other side and then he has to meet me on the other side by going around Aymee in front and then grabbing the rods again. And they’re both, Aymee and Johnny, are on rolling stools so they’ll be a little lower than Ingrid and me.

But yeah, it’s quite… and you see it. I think I posted something on social media where you kind of see it, but I don’t know if you can see how the rod thing happens. But yeah, it’s kind of, it’s intense. So we knew we’d get that first chorus. (in voice of Mokey) ‘Cause you and me. (in normal voice) That whole bit through.

So we did that pretty much all in one. And then in the background bits the little creatures in the background, the background plants, they have their own choreography too, that they’re doing.

INGRID: Yeah. 

JOE: That’s cool

DONNA: Yeah. It was fun.

JOE: Are you literally like in one of those rehearsal rooms with the big mirror as you’re doing it or are you on set as you’re kind of developing this choreography?

DONNA: We were on set.

INGRID: We were on set. Yeah.

DONNA: With just regular lights. No fancy lights. No fog machine or anything. And I think we had and we did have a camera because that’s how we saw monitors. So they just sort of threw a camera up and we’re just using, you know, the regular house lights to sort of lay it all down and get a basic idea. And then for the twirl, we knew that we… Sometimes when puppets have their hands locked and they’re spinning, it’s one puppeteer. That happens fairly often.

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: But this was the first time that I put a line of tape on the floor so that I could stay within frame as I spun backwards. Because when you’re spinning, you can’t even really check a monitor anyway. So I just sort of made sure that their eye lines, they were looking at each other and then spun and then got the monitor. And it worked out okay, but that was the first time I had Lanford on, which was fun.

[Ingrid makes Lanford noises]

JOE: That’s fun.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: But it’s quite a heavy load to have Mokey who’s pretty heavy anyway. And then Lanford and the pot. [makes effort noises]

[Ingrid laughs]

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: And all that. But gosh, it was fun. 

INGRID: And director Jordan Canning really storyboarded out that musical number too and had some specific requests for that kind of 90’s best friend, cheesy-style choreography of like back to back and pointing and all this really cute stuff.

JOE: Great. Yeah.

DONNA: Yes. And of course the Dirty Dancing lift.

INGRID: Yes.

JOE: That is such an iconic moment for this season. It was in, I don’t know if you knew, it’s in all the promotional materials that were sent to us before the show premiered.

DONNA: Oh, that’s right.

INGRID: Oh really?

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: And I love that little Lanford is (laughing) trembling and straining holding. And she’s oblivious. (in normal voice) She’s just like, “Woohoo.”

JOE: [laughs] She’s living her best life.

DONNA: “Living my best life.”

INGRID: He’s a plant. He’s not that strong. [laughs] His arms are made of cellulose.

JOE: Oh, sure. He’s lifting her with the power of photosynthesis.

INGRID: [laughs] Yeah.

JOE: Are you both on like a green screen or blue screen in that moment or are you just kind of matted out later on?

INGRID: Donna was in the blue suit, right?

DONNA: Mmhmm. Johnny and I were in the blue suit. I think Johnny was working the tail in that shot. So we’re literally behind her. And then we like, let go and then you see the puppet’s legs and they get that for reference and then they put it all together at the end. And you were  nderneath of the…

INGRID: A rock.

DONNA: Now who was doing your rods? Oh, your rods were attached to Mokey, weren’t they? So your hands weren’t attached.

INGRID: Yeah. Yeah. So Lanford’s leafy hands were pinned to Mokey’s body. And then, yeah, I mean, we shot that on the actual Fraggle Rock set. So that wasn’t shot in blue screen, but just Donna and Johnny wore blue suits. To get wiped out later.

JOE: That’s cool.

INGRID: Yeah, really cool.

JOE: It looks so good. It really does.

DONNA: Yeah, I was really happy with how that turned out. And that song is just, I think I’ve said this before, but when I heard the demo of that song, I was like, “Oh, I get to sing this? It’s so great.”

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: And it’s this type of song where you listen to it one time and then you can sing it because it’s such a…

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: It’s so great.

JOE: It’s an earworm. It’s a bop.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: Well, the best part of the song, you know what I’m going to say, it’s Lanford’s verse.

[Ingrid laughs]

DONNA: Right.

JOE: That Lanford sings a whole verse. It’s not just like a little bit of like a word here there. Like if it was like Bunsen and Beaker singing a song and Beaker is just, you know, singing a couple lines here and there, but like you get a whole like… what is Lanford saying? It’s amazing.

INGRID: Very emotional. It’s very emotional. Yeah. He’s pouring his heart out. [laughs]

DONNA: Yeah. And you put your own spin on it at the end. You went [imitates Lanford noises].

INGRID: Yeah. [laughs]

DONNA: That was all you. That wasn’t on the demo.

JOE: So the demo has someone doing a Lanford impression?

INGRID: Yeah. Oh yeah.

DONNA: Yes. And a Mokey impression.

JOE: That’s cool.

DONNA: Sam [Ramirez] is one of Harvey’s team and he has an amazing falsetto. So he does all, he’s Mokey’s voice. And I don’t… I guess Andrew [Hey] was probably the voice of Lanford.

INGRID: I think so. Yeah. Yeah. [laughs]

JOE: We gotta hear these.

INGRID: On the demo. Yeah.

JOE: Someone’s gotta release these demos to us.

INGRID: Some of the demos are great.

DONNA: I wish I still had them but no, they disappear. But yeah, the demos are amazing. And they, all Harvey’s team, they’re amazing singers in their own right. And they do the harmonies. They do all our parts. And they really, really try to have the spirit of our character and it’s so helpful.

INGRID: Yes. Yeah.

JOE: Oh, I’m sure.

INGRID: They do a great job of singing the demos in a fraggly character. Like in, yeah, in a fragglly spirit.

DONNA: Mmhmm. Yeah.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: At this point in the episode, we get our Traveling Matt Postcard. He’s at a gym and he’s getting everything wrong about how to use gym equipment, which can be dangerous. Like you, you shouldn’t use gym equipment if you don’t know how to use it. You could get hurt. It’s not really what this is about, but I’m just saying that as a PSA.

He sends back a tube sock, which Boober seems pretty excited to see. And in the postcard says, “If Hat Guy says it looks like a giant sock, be sure to tell him it’s much more than that.” And you know, what it is. I think Boober would have known that anyway, because he feels pretty strongly about socks.

DONNA: I just love that they use the phrase Hat Guy.

INGRID: Yeah.

JOE: He’s Hat Guy. 

INGRID: Matt refuses to learn his name.

JOE: Which is funny cause Matt also wears a hat. He’s also hat guy.

They decide someone should talk to Mokey who understands what it’s like to obsess over things. And so although I feel like they all kind of obsess over things in their own way, they give the job to Boober who is currently obsessing over cleaning this filthy sock. Boober finds Mokey and Lanford. Mokey is finishing a story. She says, “And that’s when I realized that I could taste colors.”

[Ingrid laughs]

JOE: Is this an ad lib, Donna?

DONNA: No, that was…I know! They were so good. I loved that. Yeah. So no, that was all credit to the writers there. Which I guess was Johnny.

JOE: Well done.

DONNA: Johnny with Matt [Fussfeld] and Alex [Cuthbertson]. Yeah.

JOE: Yeah. That’s sounded exactly something you would say. Boober tells her, like, he knows exactly what she’s going through. It’s so much easier to focus on what you can control over what you can’t. And Mokey admits that she does need help and she feels like she’s sinking. She’s literally sinking. Figuratively, but also literally because she’s slipping into sink soil.

And this is a great image too, where her feet are firmly in the soil. And Mokey is wearing her green dress and her arms are out. She looks like a big plant. So tell me how this scene is filmed. Like how is this shot composed?

DONNA: Well, we shot the bits where the scene with Boober doesn’t have any effect or anything. It’s just the two of them, a half body Mokey and everything. She’s just in the area. So we don’t have the soil yet. But I just loved that scene so much. I just thought it was really beautiful. And I think we all can relate.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: And I think in this post-pandemic world, unfortunately, kids can relate to overcompensating with focus and care on something that you can control when life feels uncontrollable. And I just think it was lovely. And I loved it. That moment between Boober and Mokey, I thought, was just super, super special. And then when we get to the dirt…

JOE: Mmhmm.

[Ingrid laughs]

DONNA: They’re little like, is it cork pellets or rubber pellets?

INGRID: I think It’s like a rubbery substance. Kind of like the rubber that’s on the bottom of those kids’ playgrounds.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: But the dirt is made out of lots of little tiny nubbins of this rubbery stuff. Looks like little bullets.

DONNA: It crumbles.

INGRID: Yeah. And Donna gets It’s all rained down on her as she hides under the dirt. [laughs]

DONNA: Yes. So I was…I’m trying to remember, oh, you know what? It was Brendan [James Boyd] was underneath pulling Mokey. And so Brendan’s actually getting rained on. And I have a blue suit. And I’m going through the back of Mokey’s head. And then two other people are doing her rods sort of sticking out. So, so yeah, it’s Brendan, I think that’s pulling her through this gasket. 

INGRID: By her toes. Yeah.

DONNA: And having the raining down of the stuff. And so we have to push her up, pull her down. Push her up some.

INGRID: Oh, it was very tricky. Yeah.

DONNA: Incidentally, holding a puppet straight out is one of the hardest positions to puppeteer in. When you’re holding a puppet absolutely straight out. For me, it’s just killer.

JOE: I could see that. Yeah.

DONNA: But luckily, we didn’t take that many. Yeah, it didn’t take that many takes, but I just loved the effect. And even before that, when you see at the very end of the song where you see her little feet and start to sink into the soil. That’s Johnny doing the feet, by the way. I was off doing something else. But yes, the fun puppetry effects.

JOE: Great.

[Crosstalk]

INGRID: No, the slingshot, like the boing.

DONNA: So later she is halfway down. And so that is me getting rained on.

JOE: Yeah.

DONNA: [laughs] But then when the grabby-flappy. And then yeah, then it’s the stunt Mokey flying through, which we shot in slo-mo for our own BTS fun.

INGRID: I have a slo-mo video of it somewhere. And Jurgen, who’s just such a brilliant puppet builder and wrangler, was so excited to have this idea where he fed a rubber, piece of rubber tubing through the sock, the grabby-flappy, and attached it on one end to Mokey, and then on the other end so that you could stretch it and pull it and then let go. And Mokey would be pulled by the elastic to rocket out of the dirt and smack into the fraggles.

JOE: Oh great.

INGRID: So it was a very, very clever rig to make the actual effect of somebody being pulled out of a hole and that real smack. So that’s all real. That’s all shot real.

DONNA: Yeah. And there were two Mokeys in that scene. I think Aymee was in the hole with stunt Mokey and let go. And she would just like, “Okay, and let go.” Sh-ke-doink. And oh, they all had to fall down. And then Mokey gets up with them. So I’m kind of hiding underneath to get up with Aymee and the hole doing that. [laughs]  The stunt Mokey’s so fun. Little Texas switch there.

JOE: Oh, that’s so good. Oh, I love it. I love a good sh-ke-doink. Good stuff. The episode kind of ends. We see that actually, first we were talking about these long sweeping shots. We get another one of those that kind of starts at Doc’s Fraggle hole and goes underground through Fraggle Rock. We see some fun creatures like Skenfrith and like this blue armadillo-looking guy and an inkspot.

I don’t know if you know who I’m talking about when I say blue armadillo-looking guy. There’s another one where like, I don’t think we know what he or it is called.

INGRID: Do you mean the gray-blue rock monster?

JOE: Is it a blue rock monster?

INGRID: The like curly tail?

JOE: See, now of course I don’t have it in front of me, but I’ll have to email you a picture of it. And be like, “What is this thing?”

INGRID: Yeah. He might not actually be blue, but be lit with a blue light because I can’t think of what it could be.

JOE: That could be, they are underground so there could be any kind of light or like the rocks kind of affecting what I feel like I think I’m seeing on screen. It doesn’t matter. This is only important to like 12 of us.

[All laugh]

JOE: So Red and Mokey are sitting on Red’s hammock, which is also a cool visual that like there’s weight to the Fraggles when you see them on something like a hammock. I love that.

DONNA: Mmhmm.

JOE: Red says that Lanford isn’t all that bad and they can go visit him whenever they, whenever Mokey wants. And Mokey says, “Great, because Lanford’s gonna live with them” And Lanford’s right outside the window and Red is not happy about that. And then Pogey shows up again playing their flute and a little bit of chaos as we fade to black.

INGRID: Love Pogey.

JOE: Good stuff.

DONNA: Pogey and Lanford, I’d love, you know, later we see Pogey pretending to be a plant.

INGRID: Yes.

JOE: That’s true.

DONNA: Trying out the pot. Oh my gosh, that’s one of my favorite moments when Kanja [Chen] was like sort of, Pogey would start to steal a glance. “How am I doing?” Then huh, they’re right back into character. So flipping funny. Oh my gosh.

INGRID: [laughs] Kanja Chen as Pogey is just my favorite. So brilliant, so funny, but it also so authentic. I think he really, really deeply understands who Pogey is and that beautifully innocent character who just wants to be everybody’s best friend. Oh, we’d love to see more. I want more Pogey. More Pogey in everything.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Yeah. Same.

JOE: I mean, obviously we get a great episode later this season that’s a fantastic spotlight on Pogey, but I kind of want to see…Season three, I’m planting this seed, another plant pun. But I’m planting this seed that I want to see episodes where we don’t see the Fraggle 5 at all. Give me a Pogey solo episode.

INGRID: Oh yeah.

DONNA: Mmm.

JOE: Or a Large Marvin episode or anything, the Storyteller episode. Like, let’s dive deep into like what are they doing when Gobo and the rest of them are off on some adventure? You know?

INGRID: Totally. Kanja and I were talking.

DONNA: That’s really fun.

INGRID: [laughs] Kanja and I were talking about, because there’s one moment where Pogey and Little Rago have a little chat about what they were doing last night or something. And we just riffed on that. Like what would Pogey and Little Rago do all night? They would probably just be jumping up and down.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: Just like, “Let’s jump up and down.” “Okay.” And then just jump up and down all night  long. Or yeah, I want to see Pogey’s world beyond…What Pogey does on their own adventures for sure.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: I wanted to ask this at the top of the podcast and I kind of forgot but you mentioned Little Rago again and Little Rago does not appear in this episode but can you explain to me where Little Rago came from?

INGRID: Well, that’s one of the OG puppets.

JOE: Yes, but like the character.

INGRID: That puppet. Yeah.

JOE: Yeah.

INGRID: It has yet to be disclosed, Little Rago’s backstory.

JOE: Okay. Okay.

INGRID: But to me, they feel like somebody who’s really interconnected to the rock but in a very kind of like a background scenery kind of way. Like Little Rago’s somebody who knows everybody, knows everything that’s going on but you know, “I’m just here, Joe, if you need me.” Kind of thing.

JOE: Okay.

INGRID: Yeah. [laughs]

JOE: Alright, so that feels like a tease for a future storyline in which we’re going to learn a whole lot more about Little Rago.

DONNA: [laughs] Here’s hoping.

JOE: You’re making promises, Ingrid.

INGRID: Or just maintain the man of mystery kind of mystique.

JOE: Yes, love that.

DONNA: I just love that when I call Lanford my sweet son. (in voice of Mokey) Yes, it’s about my sweet son, Lanford. (in normal voice) Aww, that’s the first time she’s, you know, given him a specific type of relationship. But I don’t know, I don’t know when that happened but also when in the Lost Fraggles episode where of course Mokey doesn’t meet Slowpokey, sadly.

JOE: That’s right.

DONNA: But you, Lanford, you meet your doppelganger which is a big mushroom that Dan Garza puppeteered, right?

INGRID: Yeah. Manford.

DONNA: Manford.

[Joe laughs]

DONNA: And you sob and throw–Lanford throws a temper tantrum when Mokey tries to pull him away. And that was all improvised by you, Ingy.

INGRID: [laughs] Hamming it up, man.

DONNA: And I think one time, I think Mokey’s saying (in voice of Mokey) Sorry, sorry. (in normal voice) And then I think what time I said, (in voice of Mokey) He didn’t get his nap.

[Joe and Ingrid laugh]

DONNA: (in normal voice) I don’t think that made it in but I just love [laughs]

INGRID: Yeah!

DONNA: Lanford throwing a big temper tantrum.

INGRID: I can identify with that. I feel like when you make a best friend at the playground, they’re your best friend for life and then your parent tries to pull you away. And it’s like, (very quietly) Nooooo.

JOE: Yeah. You made a new best friend.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Yeah.

INGRID: They really understand each other. It’s that instant connection we were talking about. 

JOE: Yeah. You had that moment where you’re like, “Are we best friends? I don’t even know your name but I think we’re best friends.

[Ingrid makes Lanford noises]

DONNA: Oh I also have to tell you that Ingrid and I will, we’ll leave each other voice messages as Mokey and Lanford.

INGRID: Yeah [laughs]

DONNA: I have Lanford singing me Happy Birthday.

JOE: Oh that’s nice.

DONNA: At least twice.

[Ingrid makes Lanford noises]

JOE: I was gonna say like, is that odd that you get a voice message that you literally can’t understand but when it’s Happy Birthday I guess you could figure it out.

DONNA: (in voice of Mokey) Uh, I totally understand.

[Ingrid makes Lanford noises]

JOE: Oh, excuse me. Of course.

DONNA: I totally understand.

[All laugh]

JOE: Donna and Ingrid, as we wrap up, I would love to know from each of you, how do you plan to make the world a little fragglier?

DONNA: (in normal voice) Ingy, do you want to go first?

INGRID: Ah, I mean I think in rewatching this episode too, it was, like it reminded me how we all…Not just this episode, alright. In rewatching the whole season, it reminds me how we all think we’re so different like the the original vision of Fraggle Rock is all these different creatures who don’t understand each other they don’t understand how they’re interconnected and they are so deeply interconnected. The Fraggles and the Doozers and the Gorgs and even the silly creatures.

I think it’s a really good reminder that we can get so self-focused sometimes and focused on these minutiae of things that really don’t matter and then the big scheme of things we’re all so similar and we really need each other and we need to take care of each other. And that we’re deeply and no matter how we want it, we’re deeply connected and reliant on all of each other and all the natural world and everything.

So just trying to remember that. That’s what I’m going to do. Yeah.

JOE: Beautiful. Donna?

DONNA: You know, I really love that we have a lot of themes in the show about mental wellness. And shooting this show during a pandemic, really both seasons. You know the world was kind of not okay and we had to sort of soldier on when vaccines were being rolled out and who’s going to get one, and should we get one, should we not. And we have to wear masks. We were wearing masks 11 hours a day that we only would drop when we had dialogue and it was, circumstances were tough. Maybe that’s why we all got so close but that’s a little sidebar.

But I think that’s why I love this episode so much is to ask for help when you need it because people, generally, are really willing to help. And that’s what it is for me and it’s hard for us to, as adults I think, to ask for help. I’m still learning that myself. But when someone drops their armor just to say, “Hey I need help with this.” Allowing others to be their best selves and actually help you, it helps everyone. And then together you can, you know, solve the problem or just feel a little better.

INGRID: Yeah.

DONNA: Yeah.

JOE: Perfect. I love that. Well, Donna Kimball, Ingrid Hansen, thank you both so much for being here. Thank you for everything you brought to Fraggle Rock and for bringing Fraggle Rock back into our lives. So very important, now more than ever. And yeah, and we hope that we’ll be getting a season three and we can do a third season of this podcast as well and have you both back.

DONNA: (In voice of Mokey) Yes. Right, Lanford?

[Ingrid makes Lanford noises]

DONNA: Haha.

[Ingrid makes Lanford noises]

[Fraggle Talk theme music plays]

JOE: Fraggle Talk: the unofficial Fraggle Rock podcast is brought to you by ToughPigs.com. Produced, written and hosted by Joe Hennes. Fraggle Talk art by Dave Hulteen Jr. Fraggle Rock mark and logo, characters and elements are trademarks of the Jim Henson Company. All rights reserved. Transcripts provided by Katilyn Miller.

Fraggle Rock theme song, written by Philip Balsam and Dennis Lee, is used with permission. Special thanks to The Jim Henson company, Apple TV+ and the entire Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock family.

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For more Fraggle podcast fun, listen to Fraggle Talk: Classic on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening and we’ll see you next time, down at Fraggle Talk.

[Music ends]